[Spyper]

About Scout: If you remove atomic punch of course scout will only do 1k damage

[Chdata]

At least on a server I used to frequent, only really good scouts could get around 1k-1.2k before being last player while constantly attacking Hale. You'd have to use soda popper (the old kind that gave crits) and/or crit-a-cola to actually get 2k-3.5k+.

Dunno how bonk is supposed to make a difference. If you mean using it to get goombas... you can do that even easier with the winger. If you mean surviving dying from Hale... from my experience a really good scout can only get 1k-1.2k without soda popper/crit-a-cola if he's constantly getting nearly point blank meat shots for the entire round. Or really good with the cleaver.

*No taunt crits
*No goomba

[Spyper]

Originally Posted by Chdata *No taunt crits *No goomba

This is the problem of Server Admins,They dont think the game need balance.
Many vsh/ff2 server i saw had goomba and taunt crits

[M76030]

Originally Posted by Spyper This is the problem of Server Admins,They dont think the game need balance. Many vsh/ff2 server i saw had goomba and taunt crits

Actually, vsh/ff2 servers dont need goomba for balancing, they add it so we can hurt the hale in a different way, but the thing is, we dont need the goomba for balance, they use it to defeat the hale faster than usually, same for taunt crits, this is just another way to defeating the hale faster, but they are not really there for balance, many server didnt had goomba or tauntcrits before and still they were able to defeat the hale/boss.
the server admins think about game balances, they just think its not really necessary to add taunt crits nor goomba onto their servers because they think its balanced already.

[Chdata]

Yeah, my hale server is balanced around not having taunt crits and goomba doing low damage (450 - eventually I'm going to make it do more if you can chain goomba). It's more reliant on players actually being skilled rather than cheap ways to do easily gigantic amounts of damage, and generally I play with some really good players. We have a lot of weapons for every class buffed/modified though which helps bring back the gap between players and Hale.

Hale server that does 2k or more per goomba? Get ready to see that abused by good players, especially when the player count is low. I've been on a server where you can 1-3 hit the boss with goombas if the player count was less than 10... that should never happen.

Infact, taunt crits are way overpowered if your hale server doesn't fix the bosses without any knockback resistance whatsoever... This is the problem of Server Admins. They think all this OP stuff is balanced without buffing Hale too.

(Crit knockback versus a boss that doesn't even have knockback resist can easily lock him out of doing anything when there's enough players, even if he spams rage.)

The only appeal I see to tauntcrits/amp/goomba is that they're "fun". But I think they're bad for balance if done wrong. Some day if my server gets consistently good amounts of players I'd probably try out taunt-minicrits to see how it affects gameplay again, but I already know from experience that taunt-crits are too much. Amp I don't have as much of a problem with because nowadays engies are really hard to play without using minisentries.

So far one of the most balanced VSH servers I've seen with tauntcrits/amp/goomba hitting 2k+ damage is Saxton Hell. He's buffed Hales speed to start at a scouts and go higher from there, Hale has random crits (normally I'd consider that way overpowered because it really hurts the player's survivability), and like 1.5x as much health or something. Hale's a lot stronger there to compensate for those mods.

In the case of my servers, I encourage people to try Hard and Lunatic mode if they're good at Hale because I can think of no better way to bridge the gap between a noob and a veteran of VSH. Hard mode nerfs the hale's health and rage usage and lunatic severely nerfs his health and you can't use rage. (There's also some protection against specific impossible to beat without rage scenarios - but other than that a Lunatic has to be smart and pick his targets).

Also, due to the wide variance in player skill... balanced could depend on whether or not the majority of your players are really good at being Hale or not, regardless of whatever extra mods you have.

[Spyper]

Originally Posted by Chdata Yeah, my hale server is balanced around not having taunt crits and goomba doing low damage (450 - eventually I'm going to make it do more if you can chain goomba). It's more reliant on players actually being skilled rather than cheap ways to do easily gigantic amounts of damage, and generally I play with some really good players. We have a lot of weapons for every class buffed/modified though which helps bring back the gap between players and Hale. Hale server that does 2k or more per goomba? Get ready to see that abused by good players, especially when the player count is low. I've been on a server where you can 1-3 hit the boss with goombas if the player count was less than 10... that should never happen. Infact, taunt crits are way overpowered if your hale server doesn't fix the bosses without any knockback resistance whatsoever... This is the problem of Server Admins. They think all this OP stuff is balanced without buffing Hale too. (Crit knockback versus a boss that doesn't even have knockback resist can easily lock him out of doing anything when there's enough players, even if he spams rage.) The only appeal I see to tauntcrits/amp/goomba is that they're "fun". But I think they're bad for balance if done wrong. Some day if my server gets consistently good amounts of players I'd probably try out taunt-minicrits to see how it affects gameplay again, but I already know from experience that taunt-crits are too much. Amp I don't have as much of a problem with because nowadays engies are really hard to play without using minisentries. So far one of the most balanced VSH servers I've seen with tauntcrits/amp/goomba hitting 2k+ damage is Saxton Hell. He's buffed Hales speed to start at a scouts and go higher from there, Hale has random crits (normally I'd consider that way overpowered because it really hurts the player's survivability), and like 1.5x as much health or something. Hale's a lot stronger there to compensate for those mods. In the case of my servers, I encourage people to try Hard and Lunatic mode if they're good at Hale because I can think of no better way to bridge the gap between a noob and a veteran of VSH. Hard mode nerfs the hale's health and rage usage and lunatic severely nerfs his health and you can't use rage. (There's also some protection against specific impossible to beat without rage scenarios - but other than that a Lunatic has to be smart and pick his targets). Also, due to the wide variance in player skill... balanced could depend on whether or not the majority of your players are really good at being Hale or not, regardless of whatever extra mods you have.

That makes hales job too easy, players will never be skilled on hale,also Players can improve their skills in offical gamemodes.
2k Goomba damage /Tauntcrits/amp maybe made hales job harder, but it forces hale to get more skilled

[Chdata]

Originally Posted by Spyper players will never be skilled on hale

That's subjective.

[nergal]

Originally Posted by Chdata That's subjective.

correct, when I play VSH, sometimes, usually, I can defeat an entire team without using rage except for raging sentry nests.

Hale's Speed, Damage, and Superjump make it very easy but only when all 3 are used in combination.

[Chdata]

Sometimes? More like all the time. Lunatic mode on my server is no rage, start at 35% of your health.

But if I made goomba any stronger or added taunt crits it'd definitely be harder and I'd have to reconsider how that's balanced out.

[Spyper]

Originally Posted by Chdata Sometimes? More like all the time. Lunatic mode on my server is no rage, start at 35% of your health. But if I made goomba any stronger or added taunt crits it'd definitely be harder and I'd have to reconsider how that's balanced out.

In Our Servers only a new/very noob player loses on hale.
And i think you need a class limit plugin to stop everyone using demoman