[Taz532]

Originally Posted by FlaminSarge EDIT: Ok, so! Eggman's b****ing (almost literally) at me about points number 20 and 21 on there, so I need everyone's DEFINITE OPINION on those two (or anything else, for that matter). Basically: Should Scouts have their knockback nerfed, and what should the Short Circuit do? I'll start off with my answer and reasoning: 1) Scouts should have knockback. In VSH, they deal little to no damage each round and are therefore generally useless. However, with knockback, they become a great way to shove Hale away from important targets like Medics and Engineers. Thus, if we remove knockback, scouts are once again completely useless (I know some scouts end up dealing 2000 or more damage, they're proscouts, but we don't have many of those). 2) The Short Circuit stun wasn't talked about with the thread/people other than Eggman's RandomFortress empire before it was added in, and there's a high chance of people setting up a "birdcage": set up many sentries and dispensers, and just have engies spam the Short Circuit at Hale using the dispensers. Any time he rages, a backup engy comes in and stuns Hale while the other engies wait for their scared stun to go away. This can happen quite frequently on any map, so... not very good. At all. So there's my opinion on the matter, I need EVERYONE to voice their opinions on it. Also, to whoever was requesting that Airblast reload thing, I'm still working on the code for a better way to do that (the old method blocked attack2 completely which probably isn't good).

Lol.

1. I'm a decent scout and I usually just run around mad milking/baseballing him and pissing him off while everyone else is still alive. The knockback doesnt matter too much then. When its nearing the end of a round and hale is charging at only me, the knockback is crucial.

2. I've stayed at 1.362 because I don't have time to make non-major updates every other day, but the stun just sounds OP. It does require a degree of teamwork for another engi to come in and save the day, but really a pyro could do the same thing, and a pyro would stun a raged vagineer too. That being said, that's really all pyros are good for in VSH, engis are probably the most powerful class already, they don't need this.

[snelvuur]

1. I dont mind the knockback, if you could only add something that if there are 2 scouts left with 1 hale that has 15k health left to fix something for that (i have no clue what) because they just run around then just waiting for hale to rage.. is very time consuming. Withouth knockback, scouts are far less.

2. i actually like the short circuit, its really hard to pull off but in the end if he is after me i still have "some sort" of chance to survive. Teamwork you dont see that often.

[oreia]

Originally Posted by snelvuur 1. I dont mind the knockback, if you could only add something that if there are 2 scouts left with 1 hale that has 15k health left to fix something for that (i have no clue what) because they just run around then just waiting for hale to rage.. is very time consuming. Withouth knockback, scouts are far less. 2. i actually like the short circuit, its really hard to pull off but in the end if he is after me i still have "some sort" of chance to survive. Teamwork you dont see that often.

Agree!

1 - I believe that without the knockback scouts are really useless, and eventually become just "the guys who run away"

2 - I think the engineers should have some sort of resource for survival, such as stun. On my server for example, we use the classrestrict, and are only 4 engs. It's not that hard to kill them, even with the stun. A good replacement for the stun can be sm_drug effect, or maybe limit the number of stuns per eng every minute, for example.
Maybe a Knockback?

[DanK.]

Originally Posted by FlaminSarge 2) and there's a high chance of people setting up a "birdcage": set up many sentries and dispensers, and just have engies spam the Short Circuit at Hale using the dispensers. Any time he rages, a backup engy comes in and stuns Hale while the other engies wait for their scared stun to go away. This can happen quite frequently on any map, so... not very good. At all.

...But this never happens at all and hale will easily punch the shit out of the engie who dared to go close enough.

Originally Posted by FlaminSarge 1) Scouts should have knockback. In VSH, they deal little to no damage each round and are therefore generally useless. However, with knockback, they become a great way to shove Hale away from important targets like Medics and Engineers. Thus, if we remove knockback, scouts are once again completely useless (I know some scouts end up dealing 2000 or more damage, they're proscouts, but we don't have many of those).

Scouts deal damage on the go, using the atomizer and FaN for exploits and quick getaways. Giving them more knockback just makes it even easier (killing scouts is already quite hard) for them to run away. I say no.

[oreia]

Originally Posted by DanK. ...But this never happens at all and hale will easily punch the shit out of the engie who dared to go close enough.

True.. engineers take alot time to build/upgrade things, and hale can easily break everything at round start.

[mehmetali]

Download link dont work on #1 post

[Eggman]

fixed

[Taz532]

Originally Posted by oreia True.. engineers take alot time to build/upgrade things, and hale can easily break everything at round start.

This. A good hale gets the engis first. A good hale doesn't have to worry about huge engi nests.

[cpgrules]

Originally Posted by FlaminSarge cpgrules: It *should* be selecting different people as saxton. Are you playing with bots? What it does is, every round, each person gets 10 "queue points". The player with the most queue points becomes saxton, and their points get reset to 0. Hence, you get some type of order for Hale. If one client always has a lot of queue points, that means that something's going wrong with the queue, or somehow they just have a lot of queue points that aren't resetting. If you could get screenshots of what !halenext says, or error logs or something, that'd be great. To others: please, answer my questions in my post 2 posts above this.

Hi Sarge,
I just noticed the hale commands dont work either (/hale, /hale_next) in chat. Since I just installed this I checked sm exts list and nothing showed up (please see screenshot). Plugin works fine, checked that. All I did was upload TF2items, SDKHooks, and Saxton files. I am a bit new to this, but is there something more I need to do besides uploading the extensions? I was reading about updating the extensions (unsure how to do).
Any additional help would be appreciated. Thank you.

[FlaminSarge]

The Hale commands won't work if the plugin detects that its not supposed to be running on whatever map it's on. Look in tf/addons/sourcemod/configs/saxton_hale_maps.cfg, see if it's set up right. That looks like arena_badlands, though, so if arena_ is in the map cfg it should work right.


Alright, so we've established that the Short Circuit needs some kind of effect on Hale, and some of you like the 2second stun. I always thought that that was easily exploitable (as opposed to, say, the Huntsman stunlock, which is harder to pull off), so I always thought that something that more blinded or distracted Hale was better. Yesterday, I came up with the idea that the Short Circuit causes hale to get an overlay that trips him out, plus he hears the backstab noise. I figured it'd be useful for hitting Hale once, then running away. I'm still really worried about that stunlock, as Engies on my server have... frightening cooperation.
I like oreia's ideas for the Circuit.
Or even, I could do what Advanced Weaponiser's Perceptionist did, and make the Circuit make Hale do a 180degree turn when hit. Might be a bit hilarious.

As for scouts, I'm not talking about what they do in terms of Hales. I'm talking about what they do in terms of teammates. If they don't have that knockback, sure, Hale has an easier time killing them, since it's already hard to kill them. But then their value to the team goes down drastically. They can no longer rush in right after Hale rages and shove him away so the stunned Medic doesn't die.

I've also gotten some requests to add back Jarate, and have it cause Hale to bleed, or have it work like a Smoke Bomb (Eggman was saying that the Sniper's the only class now that doesn't have any escape mechanism). Ideas?
Also, Khopesh Climber. I wanted to swap out the Bushwacka for the Climber, since the Kukri and the Bushwacka are essentially the same in VSH. Yes/no?

Snelvuur: I'll see about upping the rate at which Hale gains rage when there are only scouts left (he already auto-gains rage when the last players are all scouts)