[evydaemon]

Teams reverse after half of mp_timelimit or mp_maxrounds

This would make most the hated team balancing unnecessary if you make it impossible for the players to change the team after a team reverse.
maybe there should be an information if a player tries to join a specific team instead of autojoining him. players should only be able to use the auto-assign option from the menu

[XAD]

Originally Posted by evydaemon Teams reverse after half of mp_timelimit or mp_maxrounds This would make most the hated team balancing unnecessary if you make it impossible for the players to change the team after a team reverse.

But this will only fix the team win stats not the even out the teams, so this would not be team player balancing but team win balancing...
BUT it might be a nice option to add (switch after number of rounds and/or time)...

Originally Posted by evydaemon maybe there should be an information if a player tries to join a specific team instead of autojoining him.

You can config to not do autojoin and give a warning (thats what WTJ is for). There is both an option for autojoin at start and later in game.

Originally Posted by evydaemon .. players should only be able to use the auto-asign option from the menu

Well this is a client side menu which can't be changed from server. The autojoin is doing the same thing as the "random team" selection regardless of option (remember that even the random team selection is hooked and performs a PTB team selection and not the built in one)...

/X

[evydaemon]

rethink that:

- if a swapped player notices that he is one out of maybe 2 players switched to the team he fighted against the last round he tends to disconnect... thats a matter of fact

the better way:
- teams are balanced primarily by autojoining them.
- if the teams are even by the number of players (<maxdiff) no swaps/changes are made.
- if the teams are getting uneven as players starts disconnecting the balancer only transferes death players (this should be equal to the mp_autoteambalance method)
- for big servers it doesnt matter how good / bad a team is as the teams are reversed and everyone has to start from the other side of the map.
(this is the main idea behind the teams reverse because some maps are unequal hard to play for certain teams.)
because of the auto-join method it is highly unlikely that one team gets most of the best players, as nobody has the option to join a specific team on their own will

Well this is a client side menu which can't be changed from server. The autojoin is doing the same thing as the "random team" selection regardless of option (remember that even the random team selection is hooked and performs a PTB team selection and not the built in one)...

yes but if a player chooses option 1 or 2 (t,ct) the server should refuse the connect and drop the player back to the menu with an top left corner notice.
there are always players getting confuzed by the auto-assigns.

You can config to not do autojoin and give a warning (thats what WTJ is for). There is both an option for autojoin at start and later in game.

i couldn't manage this with the available settings.

ptb limitjoin on
ptb limitafter 0
ptb limitmin 0
ptb maxsize 25 // per team
ptb maxdiff 2
ptb autorounds 50 // i use this to force auto-assign at all times
ptb wtjauto 3
ptb wtjkick 5
ptb kick off
ptb savewtj off

//----------
// Messages
//----------
ptb tellwtj on
ptb announce on
ptb sayok off
ptb typesay on // odd: this also enables the center messages of announcements, with option set to off its only in the chat.

[XAD]

[quote="evydaemon"]yes but if a player chooses option 1 or 2 (t,ct) the server should refuse the connect and drop the player back to the menu with an top left corner notice.
there are always players getting confuzed by the auto-assigns.
[quote]
I tried it (the code, one line, is there but commented out) as you will get the team choose menu but no messages (not sure if the top left corner text was not visable or if I just didn't try that one). Do you want it as a option??

Originally Posted by evydaemon i couldn't manage this with the available settings. ptb limitafter 0 ptb limitmin 0 ptb autorounds 50 // i use this to force auto-assign at all times

Have you tried (not sure if it works as I haven't tested myself):
ptb limitafter 0
ptb limitmin 0
ptb autorounds 0 // i use this to force auto-assign at all times

Regarding the other change, this is PTB so changing it from a player team switch plugin to ONLY a team reverse one will be a to big change and make it a totally different Team Balancer plugin (not a bad thing but not what people would expect from a PTB plugin)...

/X

[evydaemon]

Originally Posted by XAD I tried it (the code, one line, is there but commented out) as you will get the team choose menu but no messages (not sure if the top left corner text was not visable or if I just didn't try that one). Do you want it as a option??

would be great if you could add this. did you test if the user will have to press M again to get back to the menu or is he dropped back automatically after the info?

Originally Posted by XAD Have you tried (not sure if it works as I haven't tested myself): ptb limitafter 0 ptb limitmin 0 ptb autorounds 0 // i use this to force auto-assign at all times

Y, i tried. it doesn't show the info. It just joins the player after configured the wtj tries.

Originally Posted by XAD Regarding the other change, this is PTB so changing it from a player team switch plugin to ONLY a team reverse one will be a to big change and make it a totally different Team Balancer plugin (not a bad thing but not what people would expect from a PTB plugin)...

If you could manage to add it as alternate option or split it to a stand-alone plugin this would be incredible useful for some server owners. anyway, i already appreciate your work. thx for your concirns ,)

[evydaemon]

Originally Posted by XAD Originally Posted by evydaemon - teams are balanced primarily by autojoining them. OK, supported by PTBx. Originally Posted by evydaemon - if the teams are even by the number of players (<maxdiff) no swaps/changes are made. Please elaborate more... so swaps and changes are only done until team size diff is less than this value?? Why is this better than to switch players if one team contain the best 5 players and the other one 5 worst ones??

i don't stick to the skill balancer as i made the experience that everybody hates it and in most cases players disconnects. this should be a general decision in using this plugin if you will enhance it.

it would be a lot more transparent to all the players with the auto team-reverse at half of the rounds/time in combination with the auto-assign and the specific team join made impossible.
but without a team reverse this would be only half of the solution and unfair as you already pointed out. i fully agree in your point of view then.

Originally Posted by XAD Originally Posted by evydaemon - if the teams are getting uneven as players starts disconnecting the balancer only transferes death players (this should be equal to the mp_autoteambalance method) How fast?? Does it force team move immediately or does it take a couple of rounds?? PTB will also compensate but only after some rounds, so maybee this can be improved?? Also why only dead people, why not alive as they tend to be better??

forget the stuff about transfering/swapping death people only. this is not important, it was a misunderstanding. (thought that if a alive player is swapped, he gets killed (kills -1 deaths +1) which would be really bad...)
i think its important to swap alive players at the end of the round and death players immediately but only if nobody waits in spectator or unassigned slots (as they would perhaps join until the end of the round and make a transfer unnecessary to balance team sizes).

Originally Posted by XAD Originally Posted by evydaemon - for big servers it doesnt matter how good / bad a team is as the teams are reversed and everyone has to start from the other side of the map. Well this true but on public and very uneven teams it doesn't matter as a lot of players play "quake-style"... but I thought about adding team reverse but then is it enough with round and/or time or can it be more intelligent to also do team revers if skill difference is to much??

maybe this could be an option...
im just very careful about team/player skill balancing because players tends to disconnect if they are transfered/swapped to/with a worse team, as i already pointed out.
it is unfair that a good team gets all the bad players, vice versa.
i stick more to the simple size balancing without checking if a player is good / bad.
the decision should be made by the server owners, i think.

[XAD]

OK, so if I understand you right...

1) Add an option to show the team selection menu again if they choose the T or CT option. (It's optional as no error message can be displayed to the player. Hmm, maybee a solution would be to display the MOTD again and then when they click OK show the team selection menu??)

2) Add an option to do a team switch after a specified number of rounds have been played (reset when a team switch has occured, at map change, and empty server).

3) When players drop then move players to even out the teams (the spectator stuff can be "complicated" as they might stay for a long time as spectators which would delay the balancing).

The last specific issue is very interresting as it could improve the regular team balancing, which is not working well when player drops. If would though requier quite a lot of thoughts and you (and anyone) else is welcome to discuss it...

Would this be OK??

/X

[evydaemon]

Originally Posted by XAD OK, so if I understand you right... 1) Add an option to show the team selection menu again if they choose the T or CT option. (It's optional as no error message can be displayed to the player. Hmm, maybee a solution would be to display the MOTD again and then when they click OK show the team selection menu??) 2) Add an option to do a team switch after a specified number of rounds have been played (reset when a team switch has occured, at map change, and empty server). 3) When players drop then move players to even out the teams (the spectator stuff can be "complicated" as they might stay for a long time as spectators which would delay the balancing). The last specific issue is very interresting as it could improve the regular team balancing, which is not working well when player drops. If would though requier quite a lot of thoughts and you (and anyone) else is welcome to discuss it... Would this be OK?? /X

1) if this would be possible its a solution par excellence.

2) y, if you mean the team reverse operation, this is my biggest request. could you add a customizable announcement (language files) which is displayed at the start of the round before a team reverse occurs? (top left corner or centered message maybe)

3) if a player drops and teams go from 3/4 to 2/4 a player is transfered to balance team sizes.

lets make it simple for the first run:

- just transferes, no swaps.

- players are transferred at the end of each round if maxdiff is bigger than the current difference.
- there should be an option that better/worse players or medium skilled players are transfered.
- one particular player is only transfered one time each map at maximum.
- option that players can't switch the team if already assigned to ct or t.


i would only apply transferres at the end of the round because if players join the teams this could make a transfer unnecessary.

of course this system can enhanced in many ways using the existing skill balancing system. but it should be available as option. not forced.

[onedamage]

love the third point, its one of the things that messes up a game for 2 rounds untill things get balanced....

what happened to the good old days when people would balance teams themselves when there were missing players on one side :/

[evydaemon]

unfortunately... beam me back to 1999 ;)

btw.. i always thought mp_limitteams sets the number of available joins to a specific team unless it can't be switched by the player anymore.

its tragic that theres no such limitation.. we really need this!

to be more specific on the joins if the player already is assigned to a team:

- there should be a variable that limits the number of team selections by the player - if auto assign mode is off -
- if the server var is set to 0 the player shouldn't be able to select a team if he already joined ct or t.
if set to 1 he can switch 1 time per map and so on...

- the player can join the spectator once in a round if a slot is free there

- if the player joined spectator mode and chooses option 5 from the team selection menu again (auto-assign) - and my suggested auto-assign mode is on - he is forced back to the team where he came from if the team size balance allows that.
if the team size balance disallows it then he is assigned to the other team.
(this could be a method for winning team joins for the player, i know. but its better he playes on the server than he is forced back to spectator mode i think..)