[GIR]

Hey,

Don't mean to be pest here but the current sitaution about the AMXX copyrights aren't really all that clear to me.

Yes you guyz did include the GPL header in the source, very nice of you , but there is no copyright notice in there.

Is the original codebase still copyrighted by OLO or did he give up his copyright to you guyz? If not you guyz should try to get OLO to give up his copyright to you. Why? Well OLO might one day change his mind and disallow you guyz from using his code.

Also what about plugins and modules? There is no licence and/or copyright notice included in the headers of the inc files. Do plugins and modules fall under the GPL or do you guyz concider plugins and modules as normal use and outside the heading "derived work"?

If so you should include a notice in the headers stating that plugins and modules are not covered by the GPL. The Miranda-IM guyz solved it like this:

NOTE: This copyright does *not* cover dynamically linked plugin libraries that link to Miranda - this is merely considered normal use of the programme, and does *not* fall under the heading of "derived work". Also note that the GPL below is copyrighted by the Free Software Foundation, but the instance of code that it refers to (Miranda IM) is copyrighted by me and others who actually wrote it.

Finally what about internal copyright? Do you guyz require contributors and dev members to give up their copyright? You should require contributors or dev members to give up their copyright to avoid people from pulling their code from the codebase (after an internal fight or something).

[BAILOPAN]

WHY, oh WHY, did you post this in the plugin forums, which is for posting plugins?

The code done by OLO is copyrighted by OLO under the GPL. Everything I personally have done for AMXx, I relinquish all code under the name "AMX Mod X Dev Team" which SniperBeamer initiated early on. (I put my name in some code comments). I'm sure PM and JGHG use similar policies of sticking their name it.

OLO cannot disallow us from using his code that he put under the General Public License, as the GPL states that you cannot restrict who uses your code (this is actually an OpenSource license requirement). He can however, restrict with things that he did not explicitly license under the GPL. That includes the plugins and the fun module, which had this copyright notice:

 * (c) Copyright 2002-2003, OLO
 * No warranties of any kind.

So if he asks us to stop using these, we will comply and rewrite them from scratch (which would not be difficult). But OLO doesn't care, trust me

As for the licensing of plugins, we are slowly resolving this. I will talk to SniperBeamer about putting the GPL inside each include and sma file, PM or myself will inject it into the Abstract Machine license, which reads as such (from ITB CompuPhase):

This software is provided 'as-is', without any express or implied warranty. In no event will the authors be held liable for any damages arising from the use of this software.

Permission is granted to anyone to use this software for any purpose, including commercial applications, and to alter it and redistribute it freely, subject to the following restrictions:

    1. The origin of this software must not be misrepresented; you must not claim that you wrote the original software. If you use this software in a product, an acknowledgment in the product documentation would be appreciated but is not required.

    2. Altered source versions must be plainly marked as such, and must not be misrepresented as being the original software.

    3. This notice may not be removed or altered from any source distribution.

This means we can redistribute our (soon to be) modified version under the GPL, and mandate that plugins be GPL'd also. Yes, contributors must relinquish their code to the GPL, or a GPL compatible license.

If you check the source tree, GPL compliance is almost at 100%... amxx now prints out the GPL like Metamod on server load, it also has an "amxx gpl" command to reprint the license (as the GPL mandates). For 0.20 I will package a LICENSE or COPYRIGHT file.

Lastly, modules must definitely, definitely, be GPL'd. This is a common debate because the Linux kernel is GPL'd and Linus Torvalds (who owns the copyright) mandates that all kernel modules be GPL also. He will probably flame you to hell before you even get a word in if you disagree.

In this manner, I am the same. We are doing this for the community, and since we give to the community, we ask that people also give back as well. It's the idea of sharing. I currently know of only two situations of an AMXx plugin that is not open source - the first of which is a violator, the second of which will be granted an exception. I am a firm believer in this, and I am in favor of blacklist for violators.

-----David "That Opensource Nutcase" Anderson ;]

[rACEmic]

I have a hypothetical question about this requirement for plugins being GPLd. The answer may be extremely obvious, as I am not particularly well-versed in the nuances of the GPL.

To what extent does the GPL apply? For example, if I write a private plugin for AMXX to handle privilege handling/logging for a set of servers in which I (lazily) hardcode all values (such as privileges, privileged IDs, and so on), am I legally obliged to provide the source if I am requested to?

Basically, my question is: does the new AMXX policy on the GPL oblige private plugins that are not intended to be open-source to be forced open? Or does this only apply to plugins posted in the AMXX forums? Or does this only apply to plugins that are publically distributed in any form?

[AssKicR]

Originally Posted by BAILOPAN I currently know of only two situations of an AMXx plugin that is not open source - the first of which is a violator

Is that the guy i think it is that made that big plugin where he makes everyone connect to some database he had to send them server info while his plugin is running.. witch btw is a lame plugin, because a very cool person i know made a better version of under the GPL? Huh Huh!!! is it....

Originally Posted by GIR blahblahblah

As far as i have understood all plugins are opensourve (apart from the 1 legal exeption)... but this doesn't meen that we need to put a copy of the GPL inside the code of every plugin... This is just done by some people that _feel_ that they need to do so... For all we care you can have 5 chapters of the bible inside ur plugin, but only as long as the source is still avalible

[BAILOPAN]

Yeah, it is.

The GPL only applies to things you want to distribute or copy. If you edit the source for your own personal use, it's perfectly okay.

Activities other than copying, distribution and modification are not covered by this License; they are outside its scope. The act of running the Program is not restricted

[GIR]

Originally Posted by BAILOPAN WHY, oh WHY, did you post this in the plugin forums, which is for posting plugins?

I'm so so sorry about that. I didn't mean to post it there. I was replying to some posts in the plugins forum and I guess I messed it up. My intend was to post it here.

Anywayz thanks for clearing it up.

Originally Posted by AssKicR As far as i have understood all plugins are opensourve (apart from the 1 legal exeption)... but this doesn't meen that we need to put a copy of the GPL inside the code of every plugin... This is just done by some people that _feel_ that they need to do so... For all we care you can have 5 chapters of the bible inside ur plugin, but only as long as the source is still avalible

The thing is that you cannot be clear enough about these matters. Some opensource projects see plugins as derived work and some don't. Under dutch law (I don't know how this is in other countries) if you yourself create a greyarea then you are at fault. Like if the amxx devs see plugins as derived work but don't specify it then I could say, I didn't know so I don't have to comply.

If they tried to sue me then a judge would judge in favor of me because the amxx devs created the greyerea.

If you copy or modify GPL'd work then you are required to comply to some things (all are described in the GPL licence), one of which is to include a GPL notice in your code. If you don't do that then you're breaking the law.

Anywayz, to be clear on this I will write a howto guide on releasing plugins. So people will always have a refference on what they should do.

[BAILOPAN]

I will write a howto guide on releasing plugins

I'd leave that to us

[IceMouse[WrG]]

Why leave it to you? I'm sure he could accomplish it just as well... I'll bet you guys would love all the help you can get ;)

[BigBaller]

How To Guide on releasing plugins is pretty much already made, its not hard to follow those simple rules posted in the plugin forum.

[devicenull]

Originally Posted by Stickied post Note that all AMXx plugins must be written under the GNU General Public License unless you talk to us first - so this shouldn't even be a real issue as long as the GPL is respected.

Meaning any plugin you release here has to be open source, unless you ok it with them

Thats how I learned to code, so I make sure that if I distribute anything, it has the source attached..
If they can understand my code, they can have it
I'm even planning on describing how my irc plugin sends messages, because its a pretty cool way, I think

So..
YAY OPEN SOURCE