[Raptor10]

I'm warried about the future of Sourcemod due to the very poor moment of creating/editing of very basic third party plugins. For very basic 3°party plugins I mean those plugins that contribute Sourcemod to be so succesfull and by my point of view a regular Css server can't do without them. Afk,Ping Checker ,Weapon Restriction and Stats are almost used by all (at least one of more of them) servers but in the past monthes few of them are discontinued, some are not really working and the final choise for us end users is not really wide..

So, very restrict basic plugin selections and from new plugins list nothing come up, almost only fun plugins, for sure well made,nice fun plugins but I don't think possible to make a Css server with only fun plugins without having one or more basic plugins and I dont'see any meaning in making a Css server with only SM without basic plugins.

My overview, about this matter, can be wrong but not too much, just look the various forums with hundred of requests due to the fact that with so small possiblity of selections, end users ask to modify a lot of input and output.

I know that Sourcemod authors can't force anybody to create and keep update a 3party plugins but they could address 3party authors into selected directions.. That is based upon the fact that one of the Sourcemod authors keeps under control the 3party very basic plugins (not all plugins, just the basics) controlling if those basic plugins are update or discontinued and this case open a request for a new plugin. Would be enough make a forum section together with "Approved Plugins,
New Plugins, make "Requests from Sourcemod".

I know that is already made a section "Plugin/Gameplay Ideas and Requests" but those are made by end users and the end users don't have the necessary overview about the basic plugin situation, while one of the Sm author dedicated to 3party basic plugins would have. In addition to that, one thing is to have a request from end user, another would be a request from Sourcemod: totally different impact..

In few words, as Sourcemod authors are doing a very very good job keeping SM updated, you should also keep under controls those few basic 3party plugins becouse without them how do we manage our servers ?

thanks and happy new years to all

[shustas]

at least we have 5 copies of admin list and camp plugins

[BAILOPAN]

The project's philosophy is to keep a minimalist core and let people implement new features on top of it.

If we implement something complex that has lots of deep technical or usability decisions, we have to maintain it and keep up with the community's requests. That prevents us from spending time on other areas that might be more worthwhile. We have very limited manpower.

There are times when we'll take over a community project, when we believe it reaches a wide range of users across all games. pRED's dynamic admin menu was originally 3rd party, and now it's part of SourceMod.

If a plugin is discontinued by its author, what does that mean? You can still use it, and people can still make changes off it. If it wasn't working in the first place, then the situation hasn't changed.

If it seems like a good idea to ship a plugin with SourceMod, we'll do it. But that has costs. SourceMod will never be Mani. We're not going to ship or rewrite the top 10 CS:S plugins by default just because a group of CS:S server operators wants it.

AMX Mod X shipped with basic CS:S stats and weapon restrictions, but it was a real pain to maintain. It was full of bugs and most people running big operations used more advanced 3rd party tools. SM and AMXX have some shared features and some disjoint ones, but the projects run on the same minimalist philosophy - it has never been a problem.

The things that plague server operators more I think is the ease of installing and updating the plugins they have.

[Raptor10]

I'm sry Bailopan but I never wrote that Sourcemod should come with some basic plugins; I'm not asking to transform Css in a sort of Mani ( I would use Mani instead of SM) I wrote a different things:

Due to the fundamental importance of few 3party plugins, Sm authors should have a clear overview of the situation of those plugins, chek if they are updated, discontinued and in case ask to 3party to create a new one.. Those plugins are the fuel of SM and as you and your team keep update SM, you should also keep updated , by 3party, few basic plugins by requests.

So I never asked to ship o rewrite basic plugins, I fully agree with SM philosophy (I have been the first using only SM in my Country) but if I compare 4 years ago basic plugins situation to the actual, not much has been changed..

[Lebson506th]

So you think that the SM package is fine, but that the team should require the authors of "vital" third party plugins to keep them updated, or else find someone else to do it for them?

[Jamster]

SM team are not responsible for the upkeep of third party plugins, I don't get the issue here, there's not much they can demand out of creators since really most code out of their own generosity. Also, some plugins might not have been updated in forever, no, but that might be because they don't need to be.

[Raptor10]

Yes Lebson, you fully got the point.. But just in case IF the vital plugins situation is critical, SM authors should ask for them.. If one or more vital/basic plugin is missing as features or discontinued, also SM could have some problems.

How people select a server side plugin as SM, Mani or Event ? Mostly by 3party plugins..If I don't find all 3party plugins I want and need related to one server side, I will never select it.

Now, by my point of view, we have a little critical situation for some basic plugin like Afk, Stats,TK and Ping and when we are lucky (and many thanks to the authors) we can select just one per type and that's all.

Jamster, just one question: how creators can understand and feel that a basic plugin is needed ? How third creators can have the actual basic plugin overview to let them undertstand and say "ok,end users are asking for a new Afk or Stats so let's do it".. Hoe much time does'it take to let some creators realize the situation ? Would not be better to have someone in SM responsable on 3party basic plugins ?

[BAILOPAN]

I don't really think this is "critical". I don't care if someone picks ES or Mani because it has feature XYZ. It's okay if products have disjoint features. We're not in a competition.

I don't find the question in the last paragraph meaningful. I don't operate game servers. Someone who does will understand all of the use cases behind game-specific features, and will have motivation to implement them.

"Have someone in SM" -- I can't make anyone do anything. Being an SM developer just means getting more access to do the things you were already interested in. This is largely an educational (or even research) project. People working on it, both 1st and 3rd party, do so at their leisure in their spare time.

I suggest you re-read my previous post. You latched on to one aspect and missed the finer points.

[devicenull]

Currently, there is more then enough that *could* be done in Sourcemod, without adding creating or maintaining random third party plugins to the mix.

Let's look at some simple numbers here. Based on the stats page, 10% of people running Sourcemod run the high ping kicker plugin. 6% run weapon restrictions. In fact, even the most popular SM plugin is only run on 25% of the servers running SM.

Based on that, I don't really see any reason why these plugins should be included in Sourcemod. It would just be a waste of everyone's time to deal with these plugins, versus adding features or fixing bugs that everyone running Sourcemod benefits from.

[Raptor10]

I never said that basic plugins should be included in SM.. Anyway, the all matter is over..