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[REQ] Backweapons Enhanced


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Costin83
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Romania
Old 05-28-2009 , 06:26   [REQ] Backweapons Enhanced
Reply With Quote #1

I saw a while ago some people asked if there can be an enhanced version of the backweapons plugin (http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?p=359356) that will display all weapons models on a player including handguns and grenades besides the primary weapons. The big problem was, if I remember well the player model that need to have those models in it otherwise it can't be displayed.
Now that I have got a little experience in modeling with Milkshape 3D I want to ask: If I will make the player models that will include rifles/handguns/grenades/knife models can someone remake this plugin to the "enhanced" version ?

So here are some pics of an arctic model I've worked on.
All the weapons/items seen in the below pics are submodels meaning that all of them can be hidden/shown (just like the backpack "bomb/defuser")

Annyways every player model can have it's own weapon/item attachment positioned in it's own way/place if needed.

I need your opinions, comments, ideeas so I will know what to do. Thanks
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Old 05-28-2009, 13:43
xtremek
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Old 05-29-2009, 05:40
TwinRraZzorR
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TwinRraZzorR
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Old 05-29-2009 , 09:57   Re: [REQ] Backweapons Enhanced
Reply With Quote #2

The named plugin create a "new entity" (wich is the back weapon) attached to player .

There are two versions for the same plugin :

Back Weapons page 5
with a separated weapon models
(see the attached file)
that version remove the entity depending on weapon/player statut (when wepon is hundled/droped /died player.. etc) and as you can read on the page that version is liter

Back Weapons v1.87 main page
That version hide the entity and it's provided with one compacted .mdl file that include all the primary wep models

*Read the Changelog

Now , if you want to add other "entities" (second weapon, grenades) wich follow player , i think it will be a lagy plugin .

in my opinion you have two choices :

1.use one of the "Normal" plugin version then you have simply to create you own primary back weapon models .

2.if you need an "Enhanced" plugin version , and if a scripter/coder confirms :

a. it's possible .
b. looks prety and normal in game .
c. accept to help you .

> in this case & for each class of weapon start by preparing your mdl files
exemple :
KnifWep.mdl (knife positioned at leg)
GreWep.mdl (grenades:positionned around the player belt)
PriWep.mdl (compacted pack of premary weapons)
SecWep.mdl (compacted pack of secondery weapons)

hope it's helpfull

btw : nice bag and knive models .
Attached Files
File Type: zip Back Weapon Models.zip (241.1 KB, 635 views)

Last edited by TwinRraZzorR; 05-30-2009 at 11:48.
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Costin83
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Romania
Old 05-29-2009 , 22:21   Re: [REQ] Backweapons Enhanced
Reply With Quote #3

Quote:
The separate weapon model version of the plugin was not soo good, it was buggy and cause LAG/crashes/etc.
The "one-model technology" was an improvement and I want to keep it this way of course.

Quote:
That version didn't hided the "entity", instead the .mdl file had one blank model that was displayed when the player had no weapon.

Quote:
*Read the Changelog
I have read the entire topic including the changelog

Quote:
Now , if you want to add other "entities" (second weapon, grenades) wich follow player , i think it will be a lagy plugin.
This part I totally agree with you. That's why I want stick with the "one-model technology" as much as I can.

The choises:

Quote:
1.use one of the "Normal" plugin version then you have simply to create you own primary back weapon models.
So if I understand well you want to use like more "normal backweapons plugin" that will be modifyed for pistols/knife/grenades ?

EX:

backweapons.amxx
backweapons_pistols.amxx
backweapons_knife.amxx
backweapons_grenades.amxx

Something like this ?

Quote:
2.if you need an "Enhanced" plugin version , and if a scripter/coder confirms :

a. it's possible.
b. looks prety and normal in game.
c. accept to help you.
a. I think it's possible
b. why would it not look pretty ingame
c. God help me

Quote:
> in this case & for each class of weapon start by preparing your mdl files
exemple :
KnifWep.mdl (knife positioned at leg)
GreWep.mdl (grenades :the bag in picture)
PriWep.mdl (compacted pack of premary weapons)
SecWep.mdl (compacted pack of secondery weapons)
There will not be anny problem for me to make the weapon models divided by classes:
KnifWep.mdl
GreWep.mdl
PriWep.mdl
SecWep.mdl
but I think this will be as mentioned above verry laggy and beats the purpose of this plugin: nicelooking/no-lag/usefull/independent

1. Nicelookink - No problem
2. No-LAG - as least models as it can be
3. Usefull - more or less
4. Independent - Using different weapon classes "entities" will be dependent of the player models that user might have installed.
Using custom player models including all weapons as submodels will make this plugin independent of user player models and I think it will improove latency on server.

Now My player model structure:

BASE:
- ARCTIC (base player model)

BACKPACK:
- BLANK
- BOMB

PRIMARY:
- BLANK
- AK47
- AUG
- AWP
- FAMAS
- G3SG1
- GALIL
- M3
- M4A1
- M4A1_NOSIL (M4A1 without silencer)
- M249
- MAC10
- MP5
- P90
- SCOUT
- SG550
- SG552
- TMP
- UMP45
- XM1014

HOLSTERS:
- BLANK (for single handguns - one holster already included in base player model)
- ELITES_HOLSTER (If player has ELITES)

SECONDARY:
- BLANK
- DEAGLE
- ELITES (Need the ELITES_HOLSTER)
- FIVESEVEN
- GLOCK18
- P228
- USP (Holstered USP with Silencer ON)
- USP_NOSIL (Holstered USP with Silencer Holstered)
- USP_NOSIL_HOLSTER (USP in use, only Silencer Holstered)

So... that's pretty much what I want to do

EDIT:

Explanation of USP in the below pics:

USP | USP_NOSIL | USP_NOSIL_HOLSTERED
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Last edited by Costin83; 05-29-2009 at 22:37.
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TwinRraZzorR
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Old 05-30-2009 , 07:17   Re: [REQ] Backweapons Enhanced
Reply With Quote #4

plz, remember we are talking about Back Weapons v1.87 by Cheap_Suit
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinRraZzorR View Post
(see the attached file)
.......
1.use one of the "Normal" plugin version then you have simply to create you own primary back weapon models .
The purpose was to allow you visualizing the models , in way to recreate/modify the entity box proprieties :
how weapon would be displayed , its movements & rotations according to the player positions.
make it closer to the player shoulder as you shown on your picture
...etc
(sorry if i'm wrong it's a modeling part ;)
Quote:
That version hide the entity and it's provided with one compacted .mdl file that include all the primary wep models
The etity is visible , but become invisible :
> when player switch to one of the primary weapons
> when weapon is droped
> and removed when player die

Quote:
b. looks prety and normal in game .
The plugin was made to assigne skins to the entity from the attached .mdl(s) file(s)
and those skins should be the same as the default wepons skins.
> when player switch to knife or pistol for example ,the back entity should look like the default primary weapon .

Last edited by TwinRraZzorR; 05-30-2009 at 07:51.
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Costin83
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Romania
Old 05-30-2009 , 10:27   Re: [REQ] Backweapons Enhanced
Reply With Quote #5

Quote:
The plugin was made to assigne skins to the entity from the attached .mdl(s) file(s)
and those skins should be the same as the default wepons skins.
> when player switch to knife or pistol for example ,the back entity should look like the default primary weapon.
OK I was going to came to that too but I forgot:

The weapon models that you see on my player model are the default CS:S weapon pack "w_" models. Since I've used those models I will provide the final release with a complete CS:S models pack including silenced/unsilenced m4a1/usp ("v_" models & "w_" models) to match the player backweapons models. Seems like the "p_" models can't be changed for some reason or the server will give a consistency check error and that I'm sure it can be overrided by a plugin or remove filescheck from server.cfg, though it is not a verry good ideea.

Of course it will be a default player model backweapons pack too for admins to choose from.

I've started with the CS:S like models because they're nice looking and more attractive to public.

On the original backweapons topic I've seen a lot of people requesting custom backweapons models to match their own custom weapon skins so I wanted to cover this issue aswell by providing a decent custom model pack from the begining.

Quote:
The purpose was to allow you visualizing the models , in way to recreate/modify the entity box proprieties :
how weapon would be displayed , its movements & rotations according to the player positions.
make it closer to the player shoulder as you shown on your picture
...etc
(sorry if i'm wrong it's a modeling part ;)
EDIT:

So now let me explain some modeling:

The player model is composed of:
1 - SKELETON
2 - MESHES
3 - ANIMATIONS/SEQUENCES

1. SKELETON:

The skeketon is the basic "engine" of the model and it's responsable for the model movements/animations (just immagine the human skeleton, articulations and muscles)

2. MESHES:

The meshes are the fun part, as their are the only thing that you see ingame - the player boddy geometry covered with textures (imagine that the mesh as the human skin, it's the only part that you can see obviously)

3. ANIMATIONS/SEQUENCES

The ANIMATIONS/SEQUENCES are sets of predifined skeleton positions each set representing an action/animation (walk, run, crouch, shoot, die, etc.)


Now, how it works:

The MESHES are attached to the SKELETON in an invisible way (doesn't matter how.. ) like: the right hand part of mesh is attached to the "right-hand-bone", the right leg part of mesh is attached to the "right-leg-bone" and so on... Obviously, when the invisible skeleton change it's position, the meshes deform accordingly giving the model the animation impression (basicly its just like paper-drawing animation just it's much more complex)
This is a basic bad explained HL model file

How does backweapons work:

Every .mdl file MUST have a skeleton (even if it's just the "base-bone" - note that the HL models skeletons are a tree-like structure and the "base-bone" I can say it's like the ROOT of the tree, move/rotate it and the whole skeleton will move/rotate with it)
The player models also have skeletons (human-like including spine/toes/elbows etc.)
The backweapon model aswell has a skeleton. What will this skeleton would be like ?
First things first: The skeleton of the backweapons.mdl would need to be part of the player skeleton and have the same bones as needed so if we need the weapons to be displayed on the back of the player we will need to position the weapon mesh first in the apropriate possition, assign it to the nearest/most "compatible" bone (obviously one of the spine bones) so when the bone moves the weapon mesh will move according to the part of the boddy on wich it's attached.
So we have attached the weapon mesh to the skeleton now what bones we will need: Because the skeleton structure it's tree-like, we will take the bones that descend from the "weapon-bone" all the way down to the "root-bone".
For example: ROOT-BONE > PELVIS > SPINE > SPINE-1 > SPINE-2 (SPINE-2 it's also the "weapon-bone now" for our backweapon model)

That's being done the "movetype FOLLOW" part of the plugin (or at least something like that) that's making the backweapon "entity" to folow the player model will take care of the animating part for the backweapon model telling the HL engine to assign same annimation/sequences from the player skeleton to the backweapons model skeleton (note that's the same skeleton just without the bones we don't need) The player skeleton and backweapons skeleton will "merge toghether" folowing the same animations.

Borring... ?

Not yet... ?

OK so let's go on then...

That mentioned above will be the case for the "one-model technology" version of the bw plugin and do not forget the bw .mdl is sepparate from the player model and need to "follow" it.

Using more classes / more model packs, the plugin will need to handle more functions per frame (so that's what I think, I don't know if it's right or not)

Using the bw models allready included in the player model as sub-models get's read of the need to "follow" the player model and only need to display/hide the correct submodel/s.

Last edited by Costin83; 05-30-2009 at 11:31.
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TwinRraZzorR
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Old 05-31-2009 , 01:15   Re: [REQ] Backweapons Enhanced
Reply With Quote #6

Firstly, thank you for the informations you gave and that explain lot of things ,personaly that make me more interested on modelling .

I also think "Backweapons Enhanced" would be a nice plugin ,and i really hope : that someone will be interested on that project.

If i have to say one more thing , it would be : " wait , it can take a while.... also because models maybe named and packed according to scripter instructions "

Last edited by TwinRraZzorR; 05-31-2009 at 02:00.
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Costin83
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Old 05-31-2009 , 12:56   Re: [REQ] Backweapons Enhanced
Reply With Quote #7

Quote:
If i have to say one more thing , it would be : " wait , it can take a while.... also because models maybe named and packed according to scripter instructions "
Yup that's why I didn't maked all of the models and waited for someone to get intrest in coding this. I've only done one model for preview so people to see how it will work / look like and if it will need modifications I will not rework all of the models.
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Costin83
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Old 06-17-2009 , 14:52   Re: [REQ] Backweapons Enhanced
Reply With Quote #8

BUMP!
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mando127
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Old 06-18-2009 , 17:52   Re: [REQ] Backweapons Enhanced
Reply With Quote #9

i think this will be a cool mod is some one makes it.
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XphaN
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Old 06-19-2009 , 22:18   Re: [REQ] Backweapons Enhanced
Reply With Quote #10

That's nice
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