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Why trash Steamid Replacer?


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stupok
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Old 05-01-2010 , 15:08   Re: Why trash Steamid Replacer?
#61

Quote:
Originally Posted by DruGzOG View Post
If there was another way to get the user steamid, there won't be a problem, but since there is, can't say nothing.
That's no different than releasing what you would call the "bad" version of the plugin. You have to think in terms of the big picture, not about the small details.

Quote:
Originally Posted by minimiller View Post
why not make the plugin so that admins can see the users actual steamID, but players see the fakeID?
then when an admin reports a cheater, they will have the users real steamID and everyone is happy
VAC does it, but that doesn't necessarily mean that third-party developers can do it. So, I suggested ways to improve the reliability of a steamid report without being VAC.

I like the idea of SteamBans, and I wish this problem did not exist just like everyone else, but it does exist. So, I thought it'd be nice to have a discussion about it.
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01101101
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Old 05-01-2010 , 15:51   Re: Why trash Steamid Replacer?
#62

I have no idea how does steambans work, but come on, there are 99999 ways of faking the steamid, without orpheu. You can change metamod so as to give the steam id you want, or whatever. Stop crying and realize the idea sux.
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Old 05-01-2010 , 16:30   Re: Why trash Steamid Replacer?
#63

When you accept data from untrusted parties, well, you can't trust the data.
"Security by obscurity" only helps so much.
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fysiks
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Flatland, USA
Old 05-01-2010 , 16:47   Re: Why trash Steamid Replacer?
#64

FYI, nobody on the internet can be trusted. So your idea of accepting stuff from only trusted servers is ridiculuous.

Quote:
How about we make a Passport maker easily available to everybody? It can be done so why not make it easier for everybody to do it?
I realize the analogy is in a different scope but it's the same concept.
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Old 05-01-2010 , 17:08   Re: Why trash Steamid Replacer?
#65

Deception and identity theft are not values I want in our community. This is a non-discussion as there is no chance I will allow it on this site.
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stupok
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Old 05-01-2010 , 19:44   Re: Why trash Steamid Replacer?
#66

Quote:
Originally Posted by fysiks View Post
FYI, nobody on the internet can be trusted. So your idea of accepting stuff from only trusted servers is ridiculuous.
It's not ridiculous at all, you're just exaggerating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAILOPAN View Post
This is a non-discussion as there is no chance I will allow it on this site.
Thank you for being open to a discussion on this topic. It's nice to have moderators like you and devicenull that are not too closed-minded to tolerate such a discussion.

Summary of the thread, because who wants to read the whole thing?

1. Steamid changers harm no one, except SteamBans.
2. SteamBans has had this problem for a long time and will continue having this problem, regardless of whether or not steamid changers are posted on this site.

So, it's clear that censoring steamid changers helps SteamBans in the short term, so it's fine that you guys are censoring it now (even though it was rude to do it without any explanation). However, censorship does nothing for the long term.

I see two possible situations where even devicenull would allow posting steamid changers:

1. When SteamBans banlists have many false reports and stop being useful.
2. When SteamBans enhances reliability of steamid reports to the point where steamid changers do not significantly affect their reliability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAILOPAN View Post
Deception and identity theft are not values I want in our community.
What? Hold your horses.

I'll grant you deception, but calling this "identity theft" is taking it too far. I can see server admins posing as other players by using false steamids. In this case, who cares? Players don't typically care about the steamids in the first place. Also, you're fooling only the players that visit your server, at best. Services like Steam Friends and knowledge about changeable steamids would null the deception.

The most important thing to realize here is that censorship makes deception easier. People would not be fooled if they were made aware of how easy it is to change steamids. Deception is much more effective when plugins like Joaquim's steamid replacer are censored. When they are censored, less people will know that steamids can be changed, so they will trust steamids more than they should.
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devicenull
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: CT
Old 05-01-2010 , 20:09   Re: Why trash Steamid Replacer?
#67

Summary of this thread: We don't want the plugin here.

Your arguments about Steambans are meaningless. While I am listed as a developer there, I haven't done any work on it in years. It doesn't effect my decision to remove the plugin in the slightest.
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stupok
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Old 05-01-2010 , 20:32   Re: Why trash Steamid Replacer?
#68

So, explain why it must be removed. So far you've been saying "I don't agree with you, so there". It's actually pretty offensive, because you don't even acknowledge what I'm saying.

I guess you're not interested in discussion or maybe I've offended you (I don't know how). So, I don't expect any response from you. Perhaps someone else with more patience than you can participate in the discussion.
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Old 05-01-2010 , 20:37   Re: Why trash Steamid Replacer?
#69

You're spouting a bunch of nonsense that has nothing to do with anything. Openness is a means to an end, it's not an end in and of itself. This site does not exist to be open.

You clearly have an agenda. Go make a site and promote it. Hell, feel free to continue your discussion here. I don't really care since I'm not going to debate it, that would be a waste of my time. Got better things to do, you know?
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joaquimandrade
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Old 05-01-2010 , 20:46   Re: Why trash Steamid Replacer?
#70

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAILOPAN View Post
You're spouting a bunch of nonsense that has nothing to do with anything. Openness is a means to an end, it's not an end in and of itself. This site does not exist to be open.

You clearly have an agenda. Go make a site and promote it. Hell, feel free to continue your discussion here. I don't really care though because the decision has been made, arguing with a blue-faced ranter is a waste of my time.
What is a blue-faced ranter?
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