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[DISCUSSION] Why do you break the rules?


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ghostofmybrain
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Old Yesterday , 07:18   Re: [DISCUSSION] Why do you break the rules?
Reply With Quote #121

I think they actually raised the number to 1000 originally because of those people who provide those "one hour csgo servers", and they actually legitimately did need that number of tokens.
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arne1288
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Old Yesterday , 12:48   Re: [DISCUSSION] Why do you break the rules?
Reply With Quote #122

Quote:
Originally Posted by nosoop View Post
If you blacklist by IP / port combination, dedicated server owners can run the server on another port. If you blacklist purely by IP address, other server owners on the same address (in the case of hosting by game server providers) will be negatively impacted.

Limiting the number of granted tokens (even for a probationary period) might help reduce the "black market" token supply by making each one more expensive. I can't imagine any one person being the legitimate primary manager of 1000 active, registered game servers, let alone a few dozen.
I feel the same way, limiting to like 100 per account would be fine in most circumstances.

I think I saw a community with like ~80 servers once in the past, can't remember if it was TF2, CSS or all around, but that's pretty much the maximum I've seen under one single community name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostofmybrain View Post
I think they actually raised the number to 1000 originally because of those people who provide those "one hour csgo servers", and they actually legitimately did need that number of tokens.
Those spin-up spin-down servers could easily be run using the same token over and over, so there is literally no need for creating a new token every single time.

If old and expired ("inactivated") tokens becoming problem, a token administrator, which would check with the backend database for the oldest (longest unused) token first, and re-use that one, would solve a such issue.

Is there any of such spin-up spin-down providers having more than 100 active servers simultaneously? And what about 250? And what about 500?

A such organization usually has some sort of way to bring in money, to cover the server costs, etc., and as such, I also believe they would be able to afford a new account with CSGO to raise the limits once more, if necessary. E.g. if the limit was 100, then they can afford another account to make the limit 200.

As a side effect, it would also make it more expensive for the "black market" token things, though I also believe it won't kill them completely.
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Last edited by arne1288; Yesterday at 12:49.
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Ejziponken
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Old Yesterday , 19:17   Re: [DISCUSSION] Why do you break the rules?
Reply With Quote #123

We use almost 60 and Im not sure if anyone would use more than that. The hosting companies I know about forces the USERS to provide the token when they rent servers by the hour/month or whatever. I think 100 would be more than enough for almost everyone and the rest can adapt without any major problems.
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ghostofmybrain
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Old Yesterday , 19:48   Re: [DISCUSSION] Why do you break the rules?
Reply With Quote #124

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ejziponken View Post
We use almost 60 and Im not sure if anyone would use more than that. The hosting companies I know about forces the USERS to provide the token when they rent servers by the hour/month or whatever. I think 100 would be more than enough for almost everyone and the rest can adapt without any major problems.
Oh you're the one I was thinking of. If you only run 60, and you were the one who asked for the limit to be raised... Is the limit really 1000? Or are we misremembering and it's actually 100?
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arne1288
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Old Yesterday , 20:45   Re: [DISCUSSION] Why do you break the rules?
Reply With Quote #125

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostofmybrain View Post
Oh you're the one I was thinking of. If you only run 60, and you were the one who asked for the limit to be raised... Is the limit really 1000? Or are we misremembering and it's actually 100?
Seems more like @Dr. McKay starting it all, claiming that 50 servers/account wasn't a good enough limit, due to to the "greatly inconvenience" it would cause, as well as the fact that it might potentially put GSP's out of business. The expression here was hopefully something like 100 or 200.

Many things wasn't however clear at that point, it also appeared that the guess from several people was that LAN servers would also have required tokens, which they didn't end up on doing in the end (e.g. local servers bound to RFC1918 reserved address IP spaces doesn't).

Someone actually claimed to run 700 csgo serers on the csgo_servers mailing list after it was announced that they would re-evaluate the limits.

Another one claimed that they were running a few thousands servers, "something like 1500csgo servers".

I highly doubt that the two with 700 and 1500 servers were "serious", but more likely exaggerating.
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Ejziponken
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Old Yesterday , 21:23   Re: [DISCUSSION] Why do you break the rules?
Reply With Quote #126

Actually we using 60 for community servers + 30 warservers. So we have 90 total.
The token site says 1000 is the limit.

But like I said, 1000 is way to much. ANY Game server provider can just make it so that the user adds the token, then they wont need a single token to run their business. And any token bans would only affect the user who has the responsibility anyway. Also they could maybe have trusted orgs with a higher limit or something..

And I think they should IP ban when X amount of tokens got banned from the same IP. Like 30 days ban or something.
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sorrybro
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Join Date: Jul 2018
Old Today , 00:54   Re: [DISCUSSION] Why do you break the rules?
Reply With Quote #127

Yea, when I said IP ban, I was considering the possibility of IP's being eventually used by other new owners, but you're right whoever mentioned that some gameserverhosts branch out IP's and lease out ports to different owners (which I think is pretty cheap xD to hosts who do that).

Even if ports are banned (with the token of course) it does a lot of damage too. As long as players lose the server on the favorites tab or struggle to find the server through the IP they have saved, the server may have to start over from scratch depending on how many loyal players they've earned.

If what asherkin said is true, and I don't see why not if it is all automated, then I wonder if valve is thinking of a new way to overcome it, or simply putting it aside until they are confident on a different solution. However, as stated before, I think it isn't a big priority and not sure if it has a big enough impact on Valve's business model with selling virtual items, as for me, as a player, those server side skins are little value and more for short-term fun, and it would make me want the real thing more where I can have it shown everywhere (mm, other servers that don't run skins, or even sell it myself).

Not that I'm for server owners who for whatever reason test the mighty Gaben, and threaten Valve's business model when technically server owners OWE Gaben and all the people involved with Valve in the first place, for making the game and the platform for communities to be built (alliedmodders have a big shout out of respect too). Sure, we are voluntarily contributing with servers we pay for and by putting hours into creating a great social experience for the game, but why ignore almighty Gaben (i know it's CSGO devs but I like Gaben) and disrespect by running something so UNNECESSARY. THERES LIKE PLENTY OF OTHER COOL PLUGINS TO BUILD YA KNOW????

Either way, I think these server owners will get what's coming by directly ignoring and on top of that exploiting intentionally, and they're going to regret it since all they simply had to do is not run those unnecessary plugins. Or perhaps they will not take it personal and simply patch it where it's difficult to create a workaround, like what TF2 did with mdl attachments. (Sure people always can find workaround but patching works very well, if possible obviously).

As for the OP, if people can get away with it easily enough (I guess in this case by getting new tokens), it will be done. Honestly, developers or moderators shouldn't be surprised, and I doubt they are. Toxic people exists, and there's not a better place for them to want to be where they can sit behind their computers.) But it doesn't mean Valve can't create a system to counter it or at least mitigate it significantly, and honestly releasing a patch to ruin your work is pretty tasteless in my opinion (no matter how much Valve owns everything and it is theirs, but common fair people who love contributing shouldn't have to pay for a convenient patch). I feel your concern and feel bad for you and other devs, and hope somehow alliedmodders have some kind of connection or communication with someone who works at valve to consider your work and good intentions in their decisions. I'm sure they do with sourcemod releases (but just my guess what do I know, seems like its not always the case with that recent CSGO announcement about them removing weaponid's).

Btw that reddit post has little merit of course, it's just posts from normal anonymous users. Just was a way to get some perspective and think of all the possibilities.

Last edited by sorrybro; Today at 01:15.
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