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Scripting Survey - Please share your thoughts


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naris
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Old 03-11-2010 , 20:10   Re: Scripting Survey - Please share your thoughts
Reply With Quote #11

I have used C++ since before Microsoft had a compiler to compile it (had to use a CFront implementation). I have also used various assemblers, COBOL, PL/I, C, PHP, Java, C#, ASP, several BASIC variants, FORTH, shell scripts (including bourne & csh variants), several SQL variants and 4GLs and several other languages for over 25-30 years.

I prefer statically typed languages, but can, and have, also used dynamically typed ones.

Does a typing discipline affect the way you personally write code?

Not really. However, dynamically typed languages does make things less clear.

Do you think dynamic typing would make SourcePawn drastically more accessible as a scripting language for games?

A dynamically typed language would drastically increase the number of buggy plugins that don't work correctly.

Do you find one easier over another? Higher quality than another?

I find that dynamically typed languages leads to buggier code and more subtle bugs that are harder to find. It also leads to sloppy programming techniques, which again leads to buggy code.

Last edited by naris; 03-11-2010 at 20:13.
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Afronanny
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Old 03-11-2010 , 20:17   Re: Scripting Survey - Please share your thoughts
Reply With Quote #12

Does a typing discipline affect the way you personally write code?
Not really.

Do you find one easier over another? Higher quality than another?
Dynamic typing is definitely simpler, but static typing reduces the possibility of errors in the code, I've found.

Do you think dynamic typing would make SourcePawn drastically more accessible as a scripting language for games?

It'd be more confusing to script in it and naming conventions would pretty much be required to know what type of variable it is.

Do you think typing affects the size of a project?

Yes, but not significantly.

Last edited by Afronanny; 03-11-2010 at 23:03.
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devicenull
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Old 03-11-2010 , 21:10   Re: Scripting Survey - Please share your thoughts
Reply With Quote #13

I'd prefer static. I don't often change the types of variables after I create them. It's not much more effort for me to name the type of a variable when I create it.
  • Does a typing discipline affect the way you personally write code?
    Not really. I don't really write code any differently in dynamic languages.
  • Do you find one easier over another? Higher quality than another?
    I don't think either is really any easier for what we do in SourcePawn. Static typing would generally produce better code in my opinion, as it's one more thing checking that the code you wrote is sane.
  • Do you think dynamic typing would make SourcePawn drastically more accessible as a scripting language for games?
    Nah, that's not really a high barrier for anyone starting out with the language. It's a pretty simple concept that could be explained pretty easily to anyone.
  • Do you think typing affects the size of a project?
    Not really. Generally dynamic language IDE's have terrible autocomplete (compared to VS's), but that's not a major deal.
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rhelgeby
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Old 03-12-2010 , 08:38   Re: Scripting Survey - Please share your thoughts
Reply With Quote #14

I was about to say the same as everyone else here; static.

It's strict, so we get cleaner code and less bugs. New coders have to get used to this strict style.

And I'd really like to have true types such as boolean, char, float, int, etc.
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AtomicStryker
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Old 03-12-2010 , 09:13   Re: Scripting Survey - Please share your thoughts
Reply With Quote #15

Static all the way. It makes finding glaring bugs so much easier.


I find it simpler to learn actually ... when you know what this and that do or contain, its far easier to understand.

Last edited by AtomicStryker; 03-12-2010 at 09:19.
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cmptrwz
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Old 03-12-2010 , 15:11   Re: Scripting Survey - Please share your thoughts
Reply With Quote #16

Does a typing discipline affect the way you personally write code?

I tend to treat dynamically typed languages as statically typed, with the exception of using PHP's "string of numbers = number" ability when grabbing data from forms. Would love that for grabbing arguments in sourcepawn. Or a "give me this argument as an integer" to bypass having to make a string, grab the arg, then convert the string to a number, anyway.

Do you find one easier over another? Higher quality than another?

Static is easier/higher quality for me, overall.

Do you think dynamic typing would make SourcePawn drastically more accessible as a scripting language for games?

I think that it would. That isn't, IMO, a good thing.

Do you think typing affects the size of a project?

The size of a project? No. The size of the work required to debug it? Yes, by reducing the amount of debugging due to not having to figure out "did that contain the right kind of data" and such.
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Darkimmortal
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Old 03-12-2010 , 15:22   Re: Scripting Survey - Please share your thoughts
Reply With Quote #17

Does a typing discipline affect the way you personally write code?
Yes, I think about performance when I'm writing for a statically typed language and I am generally more consistant with naming and make proper use of classes. With dynamically typed languages I just stick together any old functions and pray it works. Don't even get me started on what I've done in Javascript

Do you find one easier over another? Higher quality than another?
Dynamic is much easier in the short term, but I find tends to lead to lower quality code, which ends up making things harder.

Do you think dynamic typing would make SourcePawn drastically more accessible as a scripting language for games?
Grudgingly I have to admit yes, it would. But then I wouldn't be able to laugh at GMod coders and their crappy lua language
SourcePawn with dynamic typing would ruin a great language IMHO.

Do you think typing affects the size of a project?
Dynamic typing shifts the time spent coding to time spent debugging.
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strontiumdog
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: BC, Canada
Old 03-14-2010 , 01:20   Re: Scripting Survey - Please share your thoughts
Reply With Quote #18

I've been programming in various languages for over 30 years, from assembly code to C++. Static has always been the best way to program as it keeps the programmer on track, whereas dynamic, while it it easier to use, is harder to figure out when things go wrong. Organization is half the battle. Static keeps you organized.
Would I change SourcePawn?Absolutely not. You guys have done an amazing job at making a good, easy to use language. I am constantly impressed with its stability, its functionality and the way it is updated in good time, despite VALVe's road blocks.
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PM
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Old 03-15-2010 , 05:55   Re: Scripting Survey - Please share your thoughts
Reply With Quote #19

Hm. I think dynamic typing makes sense when you have an object model, automatic memory management, functions as first-class objects, that kind of stuff that create a "powerful", expressive language.

Though that sounds like overkill and losing predictable run-times.

When all you have is integer, float, string, dynamic typing alone is not much of a help.

Disclaimer: I had to write all my code in Java for the last 12 months so I'm getting a bit weird.

EDIT: oh sorry, here are my answers:

Does a typing discipline affect the way you personally write code?
Yes, a bit. Though I seem to prefer always thinking in static typing, as I've grown up with C and C++.

Do you find one easier over another? Higher quality than another?
Dynamic typing, combined with other features where it helps, is surely more expressive. You just don't have to care about some stuff. Of course this leads to a higher potential for errors and abuse.

Do you think dynamic typing would make SourcePawn drastically more accessible as a scripting language for games?
Not drastically, but I think it would be more accessible, because most people seem to come from a JavaScript/PHP/stuff background. Though this could also be a mis-observation.

Do you think typing affects the size of a project?
Typing itself not much.
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Last edited by PM; 03-15-2010 at 06:02.
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Marek
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Old 08-14-2010 , 11:36   Re: Scripting Survey - Please share your thoughts
Reply With Quote #20

People confuse static typing with languages where you have to state types explicitly. (C# var, C++0x auto and so on vs old style) There's also much more available when it comes to type systems. Languages like C#, C++, Java have quite primitive type system. Other languages have things like: higher-order polymorphism, type classes, GADTs, functional dependencies, type families, rank N types. There are also languages who allow undecidable types.

Does a typing discipline affect the way you personally write code?

When I write in dynamic language I think less about abstraction. When I write pure code in OCaml/F#/Haskell it usually works after I get types to check.

Do you find one easier over another? Higher quality than another?

Static typing is better because it encodes statements about behavior of the program. However to write something generic in statically-typed language you sometimes have to resort to metaprogramming.

Do you think dynamic typing would make SourcePawn drastically more accessible as a scripting language for games?

No. Powerful type inference means that you don't have to write the types. Someone (maybe Microsoft) made a poll asking for most dynamic language they know. F# (statically-typed language with type inference) won.

I don't think that allowing variable to have different types of values is really useful.

Do you think typing affects the size of a project?

Explicit static typing makes your code longer. Dynamic typing requires you to write a lot of unit tests to be sure of anything about the software.
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