[vvg125]

Originally Posted by Caesar How would you not be able to co-exist if everyone had liberty, elaborate please.

Aye... People's liberties will conflict with each other. Not everyone can have their way. If that were the case, I doubt we'd even be arguing about it right now.

[allenwr]

Can I still slap him anyhow?

[vvg125]

Yes...

[allenwr]

Sweet, I like your attitude, we may have different opinions, but you let me do what needs to be done

[Caesar]

Your confused with what liberty is then.

Liberty is freedom from people forcing you to do things or freedom from control of another person.

I'm not proposing everyone has their way, but removal of the government and allowing the market to decide on things. We need a smaller government at least, or none at all.

[vvg125]

Originally Posted by allenwr Sweet, I like your attitude, we may have different opinions, but you let me do what needs to be done

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Caesar Your confused with what liberty is then. Liberty is freedom from people forcing you to do things or freedom from control of another person.

Liberty is also freedom from people forcing you NOT to do things. For example, if the government wasn't there, people would have the liberty to murder others since no one is "forcing" them to not do so.

[Caesar]

No, if the government wasn't there the free market would create private police forces that would protect you from murder.

And no, they do not have the liberty to murder because you are affecting someone else's liberty, you may do anything as long as it doesn't affect another's liberty. which is basically, you may not steal, enslave, or kill another man.


And in this type of society all men in every household would own a gun, and if someone is trying to kill you, you have the right to protect yourself.

[allenwr]

No, if the government wasn't there the free market would create private police forces that would protect you from murder.

Sounds like a gang...

And no, they do not have the liberty to murder because you are affecting someone else's liberty, you may do anything as long as it doesn't affect another's liberty. which is basically, you may not steal, enslave, or kill another man.

Our govt. has the same laws today... side note, you cant stop crime, you can only punish it.

And in this type of society all men in every household would own a gun, and if someone is trying to kill you, you have the right to protect yourself.

Once again, this already excist...

[Caesar]

Yes that is very true allenwr, not to the extent I would like though. And have you noticed they have tried and tried and introduced more "gun control" more like civilian control.

Yes, here's the problem with government owning police departments and stuff, they have NO competition they don't have anything that is motivating them to work better and harder. If we had private police forces they will be working hard as they can to help the consumer because they want MONEY! =]

But why wouldn't the police forces turn into gangs? Because it dosen't get them money, that is what is motivating these people, why would the private police forces turn into gangs and start trying to control things? It's a stupid idea because its not getting them money, its actually having them lose money.

By the way allenwr and vvg, I'm enjoying this debate, I don't want this to turn into a personal fight =P

[Cynicalkitty]

Originally Posted by allenwr Last time I checked, the catholic church is against gay marriage as well... and the government is controlled by the people, this is not a dictatorship...

1. Religion and Politics shouldn't be even in the same sentence.

Religion is a PERSONAL belief. Of ones self.

2. If the government is controlled by the people,

then why can't there be gay marriage?

When its the choice of the people to do so.