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VSH Versus Saxton Hale 1.55 - New Saxton Hale + Vagineer Models!


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Chdata
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Old 09-09-2015 , 09:53   Re: Versus Saxton Hale 1.53 - Gunmettle! (Last updated 7/19/2015 | 4:46PM CDT)
Reply With Quote #511

Anyway that's enough of that debate because psychologically FF2 gets more people because it has "more/varied" content and the average person isn't picky and can ignore huge gameplay problems just to see a spy with a baguette model attached to it.
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Last edited by Chdata; 09-09-2015 at 09:54.
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Old 09-09-2015 , 10:15   Re: Versus Saxton Hale 1.53 - Gunmettle! (Last updated 7/19/2015 | 4:46PM CDT)
Reply With Quote #512

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chdata View Post
Anyway that's enough of that debate because psychologically FF2 gets more people because it has "more/varied" content and the average person isn't picky and can ignore huge gameplay problems just to see a spy with a baguette model attached to it.
Not to mention, the amount of people who forget to correctly balance scout bat / spy knife damage too.
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Haxray
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Old 09-09-2015 , 11:27   Re: Versus Saxton Hale 1.53 - Gunmettle! (Last updated 7/19/2015 | 4:46PM CDT)
Reply With Quote #513

Shouldn't a debate about ff2 take place on the ff2 thread... even if waka started it?

Also, allowing anyone to make stuff leads to low quality content, yes, but also leads to higher quality stuff, and the ability to FIX the low quality stuff easily. The problem with ff2 stems more from the amount of bugs and weird features. I seen enough servers running their own fork of ff2 that all have some changes in common. If all of these people are doing the same fix or changes, seems kinda... stupid not to make them to the main one, the most common example I seen is removing the default damage buff/increaser.
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Old 09-09-2015 , 11:47   Re: Versus Saxton Hale 1.53 - Gunmettle! (Last updated 7/19/2015 | 4:46PM CDT)
Reply With Quote #514

Quote:
Originally Posted by haxray View Post
shouldn't a debate about ff2 take place on the ff2 thread... Even if waka started it?

Also, allowing anyone to make stuff leads to low quality content, yes, but also leads to higher quality stuff, and the ability to fix the low quality stuff easily. The problem with ff2 stems more from the amount of bugs and weird features. I seen enough servers running their own fork of ff2 that all have some changes in common. If all of these people are doing the same fix or changes, seems kinda... Stupid not to make them to the main one, the most common example i seen is removing the default damage buff/increaser.
tl;dr: vsh > ff2.

Here's the main problem with BOTH VSH and FF2. You have all this timer soup, and most of you know already how those timers are prone to being unreliable. Even if VSH is far more stable than FF2, VSH itself is prone to having its own issues (*cough* anyone's server hanging with the spawn teleport? *cough*). Then again, i can't blame the current maintainers of both plugins, since the original coder was a novice, therefore, inheriting all of VSH's and FF2's problems.

I appreciate that Chdata and Wliu keeps their respective plugins up-to-date, but tl;dr, it's gonna take a complete rewrite to resolve all of the issues VSH and FF2 has.

Now here's the problem i have with FF2, mainly. Though it's supposed to be far more customizable for the novice user, it's far more limited for those who know what they are doing. Just look at sarysa for example. She's had to write up several workarounds to get around FF2's limitations.

Let me also say something about the natives. As sarysa once pointed out, as she writes for a community whose fork is based on 1.06h (while mine is based on 1.10.4), the fork she writes for lacks many of the features the current 1.10.x has, so it's impossible for her to take advantage of the latest features. Her use of reflection is something to consider to use.

And with Wliu with plans for an FF2 v2, i just can't put up with having to rewrite subplugins and configs just so they work in a version that has too many breaking changes. It's also the reason why after my last batch of updates are released, i'll pretty much be done with public bosses so i can focus on keeping my FF2 fork up to date and to prepare it to be forwards-compatible with v2 bosses, that is, if anyone is willing to take the daunting task to update them.

Now once v2 is released, who will take the task of converting every single subplugin and boss out there to make it work with FF2 v2? It's just something for the FF2 folks to think about. It's a plus if you have server operators that take their time to make the changes themselves, but most server operators just simply want things to just work. What are they going to say when their v1 configs and subplugins no longer work after upgrading to v2?

Why not just simply fix the broken code? Instead of having to reinvent the wheel? Just simply touch what's broken, and don't touch what isn't.

Or at least, if you are re-inventing the wheel, try to keep backwards compatibility with it's predecessor.

That's all i have to say about this matter.
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Last edited by SHADoW NiNE TR3S; 09-09-2015 at 12:42.
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Wliu
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Old 09-09-2015 , 14:28   Re: Versus Saxton Hale 1.53 - Gunmettle! (Last updated 7/19/2015 | 4:46PM CDT)
Reply With Quote #515

Backwards compatibility is hard to maintain when the core function of the subplugin framework has the wrong arguments. As I've said before, though, I'll try my best to make sure existing configs can be run on v2.
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WakaFlocka
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Old 09-09-2015 , 18:54   Re: Versus Saxton Hale 1.53 - Gunmettle! (Last updated 7/19/2015 | 4:46PM CDT)
Reply With Quote #516

Reasons Why FF2 Is better

Creators are selfish they designed it so that you need to know coding/programming/scripting just to add bosses. Thats Just Ridiculous not only that. I also hear its also really complicated to add materials models + subplugins are not even not possible to add.You probably you need to add the source into the vsh lol,
and out of all the plugins people post. Vsh 1 is probably the only plugin on alliedmodders where you need to learn something that is very difficult for people to learn there are alot of people and i mean alot who don't know anything but coding scripting it's 2 hard + no good tutorials out there till this day, But the fact still remains why do we need to go through all of this hastle just to enjoy a game mod? Just because they don't scripting don't they still have their rights to have fun? I really wanted to know what was going through the owners/creators of vsh when they were posting this plugin publically probably thought alot of people were going to post something like this "YO CUZ HOW DO I ADD BOSSES DO I NEED TO MAKE A PUBLIC ONCLIENTPUTINSERVER SND21314JDDS ASDKAS]DF][ASD[String arg[Size211]"[ I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE HELL I'M SAYING RIGHT NOW but ya i kinda exaggerated their


Why FF2 Is Better
Now For FF2 it's epic its more customizable then Vsh Simple Drag And Drop as well as subplugins < This right here alone just makes our life's easier
Even if you wanted to edit the values for bosses in the cfg it's still simple and common sense since all the subplugins shows what the arguments means changing values and all that is easy adding companions is eazy it's just pure eazy and simple greatest plugin of all time Thanks wiiu and eggman for posting this plugin

o and lastly
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Old 09-09-2015 , 19:08   Re: Versus Saxton Hale 1.53 - Gunmettle! (Last updated 7/19/2015 | 4:46PM CDT)
Reply With Quote #517

Quote:
Originally Posted by WakaFlocka View Post
TL ; DR
VS Saxton Hale was the predecessor to Freak Fortress 2, as Eggman's very first plugin, first released on January 2, 2011 @ 13:49
Freak Fortress 2 was eventually developed and released on April 6, 2012 @ 13:13, over a year later from VSH's first release, by the very same person.

Of course, we are all entitled to our own opinion, but the fact remains, both VSH and FF2 has their same share of issues. You can ask folks like VoiDeD for example.
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Akuba
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Old 09-09-2015 , 19:15   Re: Versus Saxton Hale 1.53 - Gunmettle! (Last updated 7/19/2015 | 4:46PM CDT)
Reply With Quote #518

This really should be its own thread...

Well, I played around with VSH and FF2. I had fun playing around with VSH and add some new bosses to it, and when I have time I may will port my current Server to it, but for now, I can get everything to work in FF2 what I want to get to work. You just have to think around the corner sometimes.

oh, and @WakaFlocka: The VSH thread was created around one year after the FF2 one, so this does say nothing.
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Old 09-09-2015 , 19:18   Re: Versus Saxton Hale 1.53 - Gunmettle! (Last updated 7/19/2015 | 4:46PM CDT)
Reply With Quote #519

It's actually not as hard as you think to add custom bosses to VSH. I have a VSH DR that i have a few bosses ported to (Shadow Thief, Shrek, Cave Johnson, Hatsune Miku, Redmond Mann, Blutarch Mann, etc...).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akuba View Post
This really should be its own thread...

Well, I played around with VSH and FF2. I had fun playing around with VSH and add some new bosses to it, and when I have time I may will port my current Server to it, but for now, I can get everything to work in FF2 what I want to get to work. You just have to think around the corner sometimes.

oh, and @WakaFlocka: The VSH thread was created around one year after the FF2 one, so this does say nothing.
Actually:

Original VSH thread (January 2, 2011 @ 13:49):
https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=146884

Original FF2 thread (April 6, 2012 @ 13:13):
https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?p=1683010
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Last edited by SHADoW NiNE TR3S; 09-09-2015 at 19:20.
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WakaFlocka
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Old 09-09-2015 , 19:21   Re: Versus Saxton Hale 1.53 - Gunmettle! (Last updated 7/19/2015 | 4:46PM CDT)
Reply With Quote #520

yup we all have our own opinions thanks for trying to respect it
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