[wasder]

But FF2 was created with the idea that anyone without programing knowledge could make a unique boss with configs. Making a separate plugin for a boss is not so easy as configs, I guess.

[Chdata]

Well, this one is 'advanced' ;p

[nergal]

Originally Posted by wasder But FF2 was created with the idea that anyone without programing knowledge could make a unique boss with configs. Making a separate plugin for a boss is not so easy as configs, I guess.

True, but the idea I had was to make it alot more dev-friendly AND have Bosses in all-in-one plugins.
Doing so would make the boss just as easy to modify because all you have to do is modify the boss subplugin code instead of fucking around in the ability subplugin.

Unique is extremely interpretative... I'm just going to blatantly say that the majority of FF2 have no real gameplay uniqueness as the majority simply have melee weapons combined with superjump and weighdown. For True uniqueness, the bosses need different abilities, gameplay mechanics, more; not just slapping a bunch of badly edited sounds, nicely done model by Ravenbros, and then put on default abilities and call it a boss but that's just my opinion.

This plugin allows that by giving code-developer more freedom and flexibility with the tradeoff of being less NonCoder-friendly.

I should also mention that you can make all the boss subplugins generate a config file in the cfg folder so making cvars for individual bosses can aid in being overall customizable.

I'd rather give devs more flexibility so they can code without limit than to make the plugin more operator-friendly and restrictively clunky...

[Wliu]

I'm going to agree with Nergal's point about uniqueness here.
Lots of people just seem to be going with a bare-minimum config, then calling it a 'new' boss because it has a different model.
This might help stop that.

[rswallen]

Originally Posted by nergal Unique is extremely interpretative... I'm just going to blatantly say that the majority of FF2 have no real gameplay uniqueness as the majority simply have melee weapons combined with superjump and weighdown. For True uniqueness, the bosses need different abilities, gameplay mechanics, more; not just slapping a bunch of badly edited sounds, nicely done model by Ravenbros, and then put on default abilities and call it a boss but that's just my opinion.

This is not really an issue with FF2 - it's an issue with the people who publish them. There are loads of ability sub-plugins. If the config creators decide not (lib. "can't be arsed") to use them, then there are going to be loads of bosses that are all reskins of each other.

As for gameplay mechanics, there is only so much you can do. VSH/FF2 has always been about pitting 1 or more players (armed with melee weapons*, a ton of HP and some fancy abilities) against the rest of the server (who are all armed to the teeth with guns, explosives and sentries etc). Change that winning formula too much and the game ceases to be VSH/FF2. Tack on too many abilities/perks and the game becomes unbalanced or confusing to the point of not being fun.

Originally Posted by nergal I should also mention that you can make all the boss subplugins generate a config file in the cfg folder so making cvars for individual bosses can aid in being overall customizable.

Please no.
30+ boss plugins, each with the same/similar 10+ convars (boss speed/rage/hp etc) will be a nightmare. Boss plugins are one thing (could be good for some cosmetic stuff or passive perks), but stick to key-values for boss configuration; it keeps the convar count down while maintaining a high enough level of customisation for most server operators.

* never been a big fan of bosses with guns

[nergal]

Originally Posted by rswallen Please no. 30+ boss plugins, each with the same/similar 10+ convars (boss speed/rage/hp etc) will be a nightmare. Boss plugins are one thing (could be good for some cosmetic stuff or passive perks), but stick to key-values for boss configuration; it keeps the convar count down while maintaining a high enough level of customisation for most server operators. * never been a big fan of bosses with guns

Why can't even individual boss subplugin make their own ConVar configs? Who said it has to be one massive one?

KV configs are absolutely required to run for FF2... It's not just for boss configuration but to make it function...

VSHA takes that and puts it all in one plugin.

[Chdata]

For example you could make a vsha subplugin that is actually a pack of several bosses, then?

[friagram]

I honestly don't have much trouble with FF2. I have about 100 bosses now, use 3 .ff2 files, and there's almost no overhead. What little overhead there is arises from ff2's own forwards and KV iteration, which (since it's almost all for just ONE PLAYER (the boss) is completely managable and fine.

All of my subplugin stuff just caches all of the boss' crap at round start. I get a lot of extra global variables, but I don't care about some extra kb of memory wasted. Really, the only thing I could see to make the overhead lower, would be to rework the onability forward (move it to something smoother like prethink, and hook each boss, doing away with the odd ~0.1-0.2 delay resulting from how it chains).

Really though, this is not an issue with FF2's design. The subplugin system is not THAT BAD. I think it's actually quite good in it's flexibility. The whole index system, is god awful, and should never have existed. It should have been only client indexes. Perhaps an ADT array of active boss client ids should have been passed to order the bosses by index instead this could be kept up to date with forwards... Also, some forwards to split bosses from players would have been good... and hook/unhook them dynamically like OnBossTakeDamage... OnNonBossTakeDamage... OnBOssDeath... OnNonBossDeath.. OnBossDisconnect.. OnNonBossDisconnect... etc

[nergal]

Originally Posted by Chdata For example you could make a vsha subplugin that is actually a pack of several bosses, then?

Bosses have to be their own individual subplugin but possibly yes as long as you define their BossIndex.

[Otokiru]