[Le1T]

Originally Posted by J_Tanzanite What I'm saying above is that: Some cases will take longer than others, and there isn't much I can do about that. Not without causing issues. Besides, this cheater may have a different config to that of other cheaters on your server which were banned faster, and there definitely isn't much I can do there. As for the map, it could be that since the map is smaller than other maps, the 350 unit check interferes more often, leading to fewer detections. SMAC has a 200 unit check, mine is longer because Lilac tests for more things and is drastically more sensitive.

Anyway thank you for the AC. You are doing useful work.

Originally Posted by J_Tanzanite Also, I saw your post on hlmod (assuming that is you). Setting Bhop ban length to "forever" is not recommended. The default ban length is 1 month for a good reason. Still, thanks for letting them know

Yeah, it's me.
I set 1 week for all bans. Want to test first

Originally Posted by asdfxD Maybe it's because his hack is proof against this anti cheat? I mean you guys use a "public anti cheat" where the source code is public for everyone, hack coders easy bypass this. thats why smac is dead too. Rly... it makes no sense to use a public anti cheat lol.

Oh, yeah...
Valve's private anti-cheat makes sense. Yeas

[azalty]

Originally Posted by Le1T https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqM03TiQQmU https://pastebin.com/9cP8aZcy Why the ANTI-CHEAT has detected a cheater only 3 times? about 10 mins he was playing with no ban :/

Hide player's IP

[J_Tanzanite]

Originally Posted by asdfxD Maybe it's because his hack is proof against this anti cheat? I mean you guys use a "public anti cheat" where the source code is public for everyone, hack coders easy bypass this. thats why smac is dead too. Rly... it makes no sense to use a public anti cheat lol.

SMAC kinda died as the devs stopped working on it. And VERY few people picked up the work afterwards... The last guy who picked it up, left again... And he didn't do any major changes, just maintenance.

And the SMAC team didn't update their detection methods all that much either.
SMAC's aimbot test is also very... Poor. Not useless, but it's as basic as it gets, and bypassing it takes as little as barely smoothing (snapping less than 45 degrees).

Perhaps cheats used to behave very differently in the past and that's why they coded it the way they did, but it's outdated now.

That's why SMAC was easily bypassed.
1. Simple checks.
2. No updates.

(For the record, I don't think SMAC is bad, but it's perhaps a product of its time... Either way, it's abandoned now)



As for "public source code = cheat devs work on bypass", true, but that only tells one side of the story.

Server owners rarely want to use Plugins that are closed source (And we are going to ignore how that's against the GPL license that plugins must go under, which prohibits that).

Why do few server owners want to do such a thing? Because of trust.
If a plugin is closed source, how can you trust that the plugin only does what it advertises?
Even more so when you consider I used to cheat... approx 3 years ago? I quit since then. But a lot of people wouldn't trust my plugins if they couldn't go over the source and make sure it's safe...
Or have others they do trust go over it.

That doesn't just go for me, but a lot of people who never cheated.
Plus, if someone gets detected of something, server owners would like to be able to see how the AC works and understand *why* someone were detected, and then make an informed choice over the validity of the detection.



As for the bypassing part.
Since Lilac is more complicated than other ACs like SMAC, bypassing is harder.
By no means impossible! Don't get me wrong, but harder...

Lilac has been out for a little over 12 months now, a year, and it still detects a LOT of cheaters, many which SMAC wouldn't detect.
I've seen a cheat dev which tried to bypass Lilac, I can't say which cheat, but only bypassed 2 out of the 4-5 aimbot tests.
And the Bhop...
... That's... I guess the dev either really don't care or is unsure how to do the bypass.

Are there cheats which fully bypass it? Maybe, I imagine there being some (And that number will grow with time).
But a lot of cheaters use cheats which either only bypass SMAC, or don't bypass anything at all.
That's more common than you think (It's a little different in different games, CS:GO's cheating scene has matured over time and has better bypass knowledge than cheats in, say, TF2).

Will the day come when Lilac stops detecting a lot of cheaters? Yes, given enough time and popularity, yes.
But that doesn't mean it's not worth using now, while it can detect a lot of cheaters.



Lastly, "Rly... it makes no sense to use a public anti cheat lol."
...
The alternative being?
Even if it isn't a flawless system to have an AC be opensource that can't last forever, it still beats having nothing.
Even if cheats start bypassing it, it would still detect a lot of low-quality cheaters.
... That's the reality.

Plus Lilac also does prevent some exploits. So even if it one day becomes completely useless at catching cheaters, it still fixes or prevents some exploits. Which is always nice.



In case my message isn't clear, I don't disagree that Open Source Anti-Cheats have flaws, mainly it being easier to bypass, but that's also the only reason why most server owners would use it in the first place...
But it "making no sense to use an open source AC" is... false for many people, for a good reason.

[J_Tanzanite]

Originally Posted by azalty Hide player's IP

Kinda hard to do when it's on pastebin...
I've begun to consider removing IP logging from logs... Just to prevent this issue.

Sadly, that would cause issues for server owners who want that info... Might be worth either logging IPs separately or having it be behind a ConVar to enable it...
Honestly tho, I hate both of those "solutions" and it would just cause more problems than it's worth.

No idea, just throwing some thoughts out there.

Edit:
The thought hit me of "encrypting" the IP and have each server have their own unique generated key...
What an absolutely terrible idea xD

[J_Tanzanite]

Originally Posted by azalty Server owners should just stop being dumb and hide players' IPs when posting logs (SteamIDs, idc, since cheaters should assume that they cheated, but posting IPs causes privacy problems). I don't know if it's forbidden in the US but it is in Europe. Don't remove IPs from logs, they are useful.

Don't worry, I'm not taking my throw-away thoughts seriously.
It would just cause issues for server admins who may need or want IPs to be logged to solve the issue of a tiny fraction of people who share logs...

I wouldn't say server owners who share IPs are dumb, most people just don't think about it because... They have other things on their mind.
It's very uncommon to think about IPs in general... Plus slip-ups happen.

It's dumb to do it, but you're not a dumb person for doing it. I just want to make that distinction clear.

I didn't know it's forbidden in (some parts, perhaps) Europe?

[azalty]

Originally Posted by J_Tanzanite Don't worry, I'm not taking my throw-away thoughts seriously. It would just cause issues for server admins who may need or want IPs to be logged to solve the issue of a tiny fraction of people who share logs... I wouldn't say server owners who share IPs are dumb, most people just don't think about it because... They have other things on their mind. It's very uncommon to think about IPs in general... Plus slip-ups happen. It's dumb to do it, but you're not a dumb person for doing it. I just want to make that distinction clear. I didn't know it's forbidden in (some parts, perhaps) Europe?

I was angry, sorry Le1T and other server owners. I think each server owner should learn what they can or can't do and understand they have legal/ethical responsabilities when opening a server.

Potential misinformation

IP addresses are considered personnel data (in some cases) in GDPR because they can be used to identify someone. I don't know that much about that legal stuff, but since you can track someone with it, and find someone's average location, it is a sensitive data to my eyes. I'm pretty sure displaying someone's IP publicly is forbidden.

[Le1T]

Those IPs are dynamic.
And too many servers have a plugin "Connect Info", who shows IPs and SteamIds.


Its public information and when you know somebody IP, it makes no sense, because you can say nothing about this man

Okay, my IP for now is 178.121.92.47 . What you know about me? Find me please

[J_Tanzanite]

Originally Posted by azalty I was angry, sorry Le1T and other server owners. I think each server owner should learn what they can or can't do and understand they have legal/ethical responsabilities when opening a server. IP addresses are considered personnel data (in some cases) in GDPR because they can be used to identify someone. I don't know that much about that legal stuff, but since you can track someone with it, and find someone's average location, it is a sensitive data to my eyes. I'm pretty sure displaying someone's IP publicly is forbidden.

Afaik, IP tracking is faulty and can at best tell you the general location of your ISP. Which in and of itself is... fairly useless.
The reason why I don't like the sharing of IPs is that some people online take things too far against people they don't like (DDoS). And I've seen people DDoS others who they think are cheating. Even if they are cheating, it just isn't right.
If you've been on the internet for any length of time, you'll know how weird some people are.

Changing IPs is easy, although for some it's harder (apparently, I've been told by some that they can't? Haven't looked int it tho).

[azalty]

Originally Posted by Le1T Those IPs are dynamic. And too many servers have a plugin "Connect Info", who shows IPs and SteamIds. Its public information and when you know somebody IP, it makes no sense, because you can say nothing about this man Okay, my IP for now is 178.121.92.47 . What you know about me? Find me please

Russia is not a member of the European Union, for which reason the EU jurisdiction (including the GDPR scope) does not extend over the territory of the Russian Federation

How can you even know those IPs are dynamic? I still consider them as sensitive in any way.
You can find the approximate area, for example it is Minsk for you. On top of that people can DDoS you as tanzanite said and government can easily find your real address and name just by asking your ISP

This can be a big threat, especially if you have a static IP

Anyways, we’re going off topic

[J_Tanzanite]

Not to be rude or anything, but I'm starting to think continuation of this topic may be considered "off-topic" by mods.
Although it's related to Lilac and the sharing of logs, it's starting to derail into a different topic.

Not entirely sure what mods think, or the exact ruleset regarding this, but I have a feeling this topic might have be discussed somewhere else?