[adrianman]

don't mind marvel he was on non-steam before...

[D4rKr0W]

Thanks a lot for all the work you guys put into this, hope you'll be able to recover all of the data that was in the faulty drive!

[FaTony]

Originally Posted by BAILOPAN The dirty secret is that we have always kept the donation goal significantly less than our actual costs.

You have admitted you've been lying for a long time. My trust has greatly shaken in you.

Name us the exact amount you need to pay down to a single cent. Domain registration, dedicated server hosting... monthly, annually, etc, etc, etc.

Of course, the detailed statistics on how much donations were received each month and how much you have paid from your pocket would be great too.

[psychonic]

Originally Posted by FaTony Originally Posted by BAILOPAN The dirty secret is that we have always kept the donation goal significantly less than our actual costs. You have admitted you've been lying for a long time. My trust has greatly shaken in you. Name us the exact amount you need to pay down to a single cent. Domain registration, dedicated server hosting... monthly, annually, etc, etc, etc. Of course, the detailed statistics on how much donations were received each month and how much you have paid from your pocket would be great too.

[asherkin]

Originally Posted by FaTony You have admitted you've been lying for a long time. My trust has greatly shaken in you.

How is that lying? It would only have been bad if the donation goal was higher than the actual costs.

[zeroibis]

Why, would that be any worse? Do they not deserve some donations in there pocket for their work on this. Time is not free and they need things just like the rest of us.

Also he was making a joke

You have admitted you've been lying for a long time. My trust has greatly shaken in you.

You could also make a joke going the other way:
You have admitted you've been lying for a long time. My trust has greatly in you has grown significantly due to your honesty on this matter.

[asherkin]

Originally Posted by zeroibis Why, would that be any worse? Do they not deserve some donations in there pocket for their work on this. Time is not free and they need things just like the rest of us.

Of course dvander / the AM fund does, but imo this isn't the purpose of a goal.
The goal should be the amount needed to cover all costs and to rebuild the emergency fund (it's taken a serious hit over this), then anything past that goes back to dvander (and some, considering the out-of-pocket costs over the years that he deserves back).
Don't try and make me out to be the enemy, I have some of my own stuff hosted on the AM server (which was all recovered, <3 dvander) and was one of the people trying to find the cause of the recurring site issues before the drive crash.

Originally Posted by zeroibis Also he was making a joke

[23:46] <@MatthiasVance> Well, that's actually a VERY kind message.
[23:47] <@asherkin> "You have admitted you've been lying for a long time. My trust has greatly shaken in you."
[23:47] <@asherkin> that isn't
[23:48] <@asherkin> both psychonic and me thought the same thing
[23:48] <@asherkin> so we must be right
[23:48] <@asherkin> !
[23:48] <@psychonic> !!
[23:49] <@MatthiasVance> Yeah that line was weird, but I'm sure he was trying to be "funny".
[23:49] <@MatthiasVance> The rest of the message is like : Tell me how much you need and I'll be sure to donate it.
[23:50] <@MatthiasVance> Although I don't see him in the hall of fame
[23:50] <@psychonic> where does he say that MV?
[23:50] <@MatthiasVance> He doesn't say that, but that's what I understood from it.
[23:51] <@psychonic> he didn't say he was going to donate he, he was trying to propose an audit
[23:51] <@psychonic> as if money is being squandered
[23:51] <@asherkin> you can also read it as "TELL US HOW MUCH IT ACTUALLY COSTS, STOP LYING"
[23:51] <@MatthiasVance> Yeah, there are two ways to interpret it.
[23:51] <@asherkin> lets all stop and watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXW55S4X9zo

It's highly dependent on your perspective .

[BAILOPAN]

Originally Posted by zeroibis Why, would that be any worse? Do they not deserve some donations in there pocket for their work on this. Time is not free and they need things just like the rest of us.

Excess funds go into an emergency pool. In case I lose my job, or we don't get any donations, we want to be able to operate. AM is non-profit and the extra funds never go to me, however, I will expense things for SourceMod developers (such as games we need to support). Anyway, we don't make enough extra money that it would be meaningful to take from the cookie jar ;)

Originally Posted by FaTony You have admitted you've been lying for a long time. My trust has greatly shaken in you.

I don't know why, but ok. No one ever said the donation goal precisely matched our expenses. It's a round number that I felt was likely to be met without asking too much of the community, while still paying a decent chunk of our bills. Keep in mind we've historically had advertising as well, but we get less than our donation goal from that and combined they don't meet our expenses.

Originally Posted by FaTony Name us the exact amount you need to pay down to a single cent. Domain registration, dedicated server hosting... monthly, annually, etc, etc, etc.

No.

I will say that fixed costs are about $380/mo right now, as part of our infrastructure revamping we're looking into making a bigger up-front investment to bring this down.

[FaTony]

I didn't try to make a joke. I just hate people that lie even if lie is justified on their moral grounds. Many of you think that if Bailopan choose the lesser cap, he is caring for community well-being, isn't distracting newcomers, is being a shy "in a good way" person, etc. I.e. his lies are justified and make him a sort of noble person.

However, you don't think about if the people knew the real bill, they would donate more. Also, if he would have been posting a detailed statistics of what is going on and disclose the amount of his own spendings, people would tend to donate slightly more, proportionally to his spendings. The worse the situation gets and more people know about it, the more people tend to help. The whole HDD crash would be evaded (at least the statistical probability would be less).

I'm saying all of it because even after the crash I don't the see signs of that lesson being learned.

EDIT: didn't see the Bail's post.

Originally Posted by BAILOPAN No one ever said the donation goal precisely matched our expenses.

Good one. But it is generally assumed that donation goal is what will guarantee a well-being of a system to a certain degree. I know you can evade from this in court.

[joaquimandrade]

Originally Posted by FaTony I didn't try to make a joke. I just hate people that lie even if lie is justified on their moral grounds. Many of you think that if Bailopan choose the lesser cap, he is caring for community well-being, isn't distracting newcomers, is being a shy "in a good way" person, etc. I.e. his lies are justified and make him a sort of noble person. However, you don't think about if the people knew the real bill, they would donate more. Also, if he would have been posting a detailed statistics of what is going on and disclose the amount of his own spendings, people would tend to donate slightly more proportionally to his spendings. The worse the situation gets and more people know about it, the more people tend to help.The whole HDD crash would be evaded (at least the statistical probability would be less). I'm saying all of it because even after the crash I don't the see signs of that lesson being learned.

Even if you are right with your argument that doing it "in a good way" is bad or worst than it should be (or even self-destructive) you should be thankful for any way it is and not talk like if someone was breaching a contract with you.