[Visual77]

A much more effictive way IMO to stop trolling is to block the player from calling votes, if he did a return to lobby vote, rather than kicking him. Most players griefing will try everything. If back to lobby dosn't work, they call a change mission vote, if that dosn't work they probably try to votekick as many players as possible before they leave or get banned. The L4D2 vote system is horribly misused.

This is btw figurely speaking on servers that do not use the lobby system in general, were admins have every right to block the returntolobby anyway.

[Carl Sagan]

Originally Posted by s.m.a.c head did not work I have returntolobby "c" and still players can call the vote ? I put vb_enable | Default = 1 vb_returntolobby | Default = 1 vb_changealltalk | Default = 1 vb_kickimmunity | Default = 1 vb_changealltalkkick | Default = 0 vb_returntolobbykick | Default = 1 vb_kickimmunitykick | Default = 0 in the server.cfg "vb_returntolobby" = "| Default = 1" ( def. "1" ) min. 0.000000 max. 1.000000 ss_added - 0 = Disable, 1 = Enable did not work +(

You don't put the cvars in the server config, they are set automatically by the plugin.

We were having a similar problem on our servers. I had tested the plugin on my private server and it worked fine, but when we tried to roll it out to our public servers it didn't work. We fixed this by updating metamod and sourcemod. Use the latest development snapshots (not the stable ones).

Originally Posted by Dr. Greg House No, he is not misunderstanding. Not only can't people call a returntolobby vote anymore thus trapping the entire lobby into staying on this server, you also kick those people by default without any warning. This should not be allowed and might even violate the Policy Of Truth by forcing players to stay on the server if they want to play with those people, although they don't like the server for whatever possibly justified reason (this plugin for example).

No, you're really the ones misunderstanding. People can still leave the server by pressing escape and choosing to leave the server there. A return to lobby vote forces ALL players in that server to return to the lobby, thus ending the game.

People can't join our servers by creating a lobby. They have to use quick match, join through our steam group, or connect directly. People can't join our servers through quick join until someone has connected through our steam group or connected directly. So it's one person that will join, see it's a modded server, and call a vote to return to lobby in order to grief.

Originally Posted by Dr. McKay Players are always free to leave a server at any time. I can understand why you'd want to block the "return to lobby" vote on a server that's modded and doesn't use lobbies in the traditional sense. Forgive me if I'm wrong, as I don't play much L4D2, but it sounds like people are joining a server that doesn't use lobbies and relies on server browser joins, as with other games. People are coming onto this server and calling votes to return to the lobby, which disconnects all players. The only reason to call this vote on such a server would be to grief, and kicking the player is an appropriate response. Of course, I could be totally wrong.

Exactly right.

Originally Posted by Dr. Greg House This kicks those people by default. If you want to kick an "admin" you don't know of, you get kicked. You don't play L4D, so I'll try to explain the situation: There's a slot of servers using plugins with the same functionality, you join them from lobby by random, you have a bad ping, the server is bugged, there are other mods you don't agree with (perkmod, etc.) and the 8 people are all trapped on the server. Now you can leave as one person, yes, but the lobby itself breaks apart and it is oftentimes very difficult to find the same interesting lineup of players as pubs, or even get a full lobby. To sum it up, it is incredibly frustrating. Server owners abuse this (actually do this on purpose rather than "abusing") to keep their servers full.

This is a private server owned by someone, not a public server hosted by valve. The server owner and admins have the right to kick anyone for whatever reason. Before I made this plugin, if someone called a vote to return to lobby, we'd kick them manually, because if the vote failed, they'd start to grief by killing themselves or their team.

This plugin does not trap people on the server... you keep saying it does but it doesn't. People can leave the server very easily by themselves. It would be faster to leave the server by yourself than to wait for the return to lobby vote to go through.

If you want to play with those people again, add them on Steam. All the people I've seen call return to lobby votes do it for griefing.

What about those people that want to stay on the server and continue playing the game? Just because you don't like a certain plugin like XPMod or whatever doesn't mean you should end the game for everyone on the server.

[Dr. Greg House]

Originally Posted by Carl Sagan [...]People can still leave the server by pressing escape and choosing to leave the server there. A return to lobby vote forces ALL players in that server to return to the lobby, thus ending the game.[...]

It is called a majority decision. Why simply leaving is not the option in certain situations is stated in my previous posts.

Originally Posted by Carl Sagan [...]People can't join our servers by creating a lobby.[...]

This is great. I don't think you are publishing this so only you can use this plugin on your server.

Originally Posted by Carl Sagan [...]If you want to play with those people again, add them on Steam.[...]

That's not an option. Has it ever worked for you to send friend requests to all seven strangers, which they immediately accept and in a few minutes you have the same lobby again and can finally play a game with those people? No it didn't. And it is hilarious that you propose to circumvent what you are blocking.

Originally Posted by Carl Sagan [...]All the people I've seen call return to lobby votes do it for griefing.[...]

Aha. Well I did. Very often. And not to grief. I am sure many others did as well.
What's the next step here? To block weapons because "all the people someone has seen" use them to teamkill? This is ridiculous.

[Carl Sagan]

Originally Posted by Dr. Greg House It is called a majority decision. Why simply leaving is not the option in certain situations is stated in my previous posts. This is great. I don't think you are publishing this so only you can use this plugin on your server. That's not an option. Has it ever worked for you to send friend requests to all seven strangers, which they immediately accept and in a few minutes you have the same lobby again and can finally play a game with those people? No it didn't. And it is hilarious that you propose to circumvent what you are blocking. Aha. Well I did. Very often. And not to grief. I am sure many others did as well. What's the next step here? To block weapons because "all the people someone has seen" use them to teamkill? This is ridiculous.

If you don't want to play on servers with plugins like these, play on Valve's servers. Server owners can put whatever plugins they like on their servers and they reserve the right to administrate on them however they feel right.

Please don't post in my thread if you have nothing to contribute other than how you feel about my plugin. I don't want to discuss ethics and how people feel about this plugin or whether or not it should be used.

[Dr. Greg House]

Originally Posted by Carl Sagan If you don't want to play on servers with plugins like these, play on Valve's servers. Server owners can put whatever plugins they like on their servers and they reserve the right to administrate on them however they feel right.[...]

Yes they can. But the distribution here on these forums has to follow a certain set of rules.

Originally Posted by Carl Sagan [...]Please don't post in my thread if you have nothing to contribute other than how you feel about my plugin. I don't want to discuss ethics and how people feel about this plugin or whether or not it should be used.

I must say, after you have engaged in this discussion stating I would have misunderstood stuff, and after all you suddenly claim everything is subjective, I don't need to guess how you treat players.

[Carl Sagan]

Originally Posted by Dr. Greg House Yes they can. But the distribution here on these forums has to follow a certain set of rules.

Which rule do you think this plugin has broken? If you feel it breaks a rule, report it to the moderators, don't complain about it in this thread.

[Dr. Greg House]

I did and it seems McKay, for example, wasn't sure about that as he didn't understand the lobby system. He posted about this as well, and you didn't start complaining for no reason until you ran out of arguments.

[Carl Sagan]

Originally Posted by Dr. Greg House I must say, after you have engaged in this discussion stating I would have misunderstood stuff, and after all you suddenly claim everything is subjective, I don't need to guess how you treat players.

Originally Posted by Dr. Greg House you didn't start complaining for no reason until you ran out of arguments.

I didn't feel like arguing over whether or not you feel this plugin is good or bad, but since you're trying to push me...

Originally Posted by Dr. Greg House It is called a majority decision. Why simply leaving is not the option in certain situations is stated in my previous posts.

Kicking admin-flagged players is also a majority decision. Why not let the majority decide if an admin should be kicked? (that's sarcasm if you can't tell)

Originally Posted by Dr. Greg House This is great. I don't think you are publishing this so only you can use this plugin on your server.

Correct. Why do you care what plugins other server owners use? Like I said, play on Valve's servers without any plugins.

Originally Posted by Dr. Greg House That's not an option. Has it ever worked for you to send friend requests to all seven strangers, which they immediately accept and in a few minutes you have the same lobby again and can finally play a game with those people? No it didn't. And it is hilarious that you propose to circumvent what you are blocking.

That's not my problem if people don't want to add you back. You're acting like this plugin is going to be on every single L4D2 server and it forces people to stay on a server with no option to leave.

Originally Posted by Dr. Greg House What's the next step here? To block weapons because "all the people someone has seen" use them to teamkill? This is ridiculous.

That thinking is ridiculous. Nice slippery slope fallacy, though.

[Dr. Greg House]

Originally Posted by Carl Sagan [...]Kicking admin-flagged players is also a majority decision. Why not let the majority decide if an admin should be kicked? (that's sarcasm if you can't tell)[...]

I think this falls under "slippery slope fallacy"? I was clearly talking about lobby-votes.

Originally Posted by Carl Sagan [...]Like I said, play on Valve's servers without any plugins.[...]

I think you play this game long enough to know that a) sourcemod is mandatory for a lot of bug fixes and b) during the game's lifetime it happens quite frequently that official servers are unavailable.

Originally Posted by Carl Sagan [...]That's not my problem if people don't want to add you back. You're acting like this plugin is going to be on every single L4D2 server and it forces people to stay on a server with no option to leave.[...]

What it does exactly. Either play with those people you think you could have a good game with on the server or abandon them and sit in an empty lobby. No wait. The plugin does not even tell you you are not allowed to call the vote. It kicks you instantly without any warning. You not caring is the main reason this plugin exists I think.

Originally Posted by Carl Sagan [...]That thinking is ridiculous. Nice slippery slope fallacy, though.

My point exactly.
There's already enough plugins blocking people's votes, but none of them kicks the players at random (from their pov). They don't know lobby votes result in kicks, and they don't know that they will get kicked if they try to kick someone as they can't see who is an admin and who isn't.
You not being able to take constructive criticism to improve your plugin is ridiculous. But with that thinking you are not alone in the l4d community. I have learned that the hard way.

[Carl Sagan]

Originally Posted by Dr. Greg House I think you play this game long enough to know that a) sourcemod is mandatory for a lot of bug fixes and b) during the game's lifetime it happens quite frequently that official servers are unavailable.

So host your own server find a group's servers that you enjoy playing on.

Originally Posted by Dr. Greg House What it does exactly.

You keep saying it forces you to stay on a server. It does NOT do that. You can leave at any time as you normally would. Stop saying that it forces you to stay.

Originally Posted by Dr. Greg House The plugin does not even tell you you are not allowed to call the vote. It kicks you instantly without any warning.

There's a cvar that turns off the kicking. I set it as a default to kick because on our servers, return to lobby is only used to grief. If they see it doesn't work, they'll just suicide or shoot teammates instead. That is why I set it to kick by default.

Originally Posted by Dr. Greg House There's already enough plugins blocking people's votes, but none of them kicks the players at random (from their pov). They don't know lobby votes result in kicks, and they don't know that they will get kicked if they try to kick someone as they can't see who is an admin and who isn't.

Like I said, there is a cvar that can disable kicking. By default, you don't get kicked for trying to kick an admin. These are all options. Server owners can turn them on or off however they please.

Originally Posted by Dr. Greg House You not being able to take constructive criticism to improve your plugin is ridiculous. But with that thinking you are not alone in the l4d community. I have learned that the hard way.

What constructive criticism have you given me? The basis of what you've said in this thread is that you don't like my plugin, it might break Allied Modders rules, and it might violate the Policy of Truth. You've started off hostile in this thread and that's why I'm responding to you this way. There has been no constructive criticism.