[DarkGod]

Turn on the option which shows if a server have bots on it or not (didn't mean that for you, just for anyone).

I just think that they should do it so that servers which have 'x' or more (perhaps changable by a client CVar) fake clients should not show up on the server list unless you have them in favorites.

[Wolfmark]

Nope, you cannot do that.

First of all, you can't trust any data received from a server. It is so easy to intercept A2S_INFO and A2S_PLAYERS queries and to send back whatever you want, you can even simulate joining, leaving, kills etc...

Secondary, the solution used for TF2 does not work for HL1 games, because things are a little bit different. Most of those fake servers don't have too much uptime, they are hosted by some kids for few hours only (when they don't play CS for example), the kids usually don't have a static IP, so you cannot score the fake servers, track their activity etc...

The only practical solution is to block the connect command.

[Mordekay]

You are wrong, Valve is just to lazy to do more for hlds than this simple way. Sadly it destroys many communities.

[Wolfmark]

If a "community" gets destroyed because it cannot redirect players ... then I guess there's nothing more to say.

[xOR]

Originally Posted by Wolfmark Forcing clients to execute "connect" command is an abuse and must be

...handled.
i absolutely agree.

Originally Posted by Wolfmark I think you don't realize that for each real server there are several fake servers which spam the list and[...]

i guess you're not talking to me here, as my point in the steam forums was a completely different one.

my complaint is that of all solutions for the old HLDS we always get the worst solution of all compared to newer mods from the same vendor/publisher. imho you can't even call something a "solution" when it rises 3 other issues on full purpose or at least willful negligence.

the situation so far is looking to me like:
if the server list problem would be a crying baby valve had calmed the CS:S baby down by stroking it and giving it a toy. they calmed the TF2 baby down by giving it some milk. they calmed the HL1 baby down by throwing it out of the window. BANG! calm...

and this is the point where you all seem to be happy and where i disagree. there are solutions to problems that don't make sense, are even completely absurd.

there was a problem with a feature and instead of fixing the problem they just turned the feature off?
what's next? they disable jumping because it can be abused for bunny hopping? they disable duck, so it can't be abused for russian walking? oh, and while at it: please, disable any kind of movement. the lag caused by it is different for everyone and the lag compensation sucks. it isn't fair that someone with ping 200 has less chances to hit than someone with ping 20!

the only thing i ask for is to give us a solution. the upcoming beta you think is so great isn't providing one. you have been fooled.

their last updates more than a half year ago already broke several features which haven't been fixed since then. you like screenshots of the server browser? how do you like this one then? you have been fooled.

[xOR]

Originally Posted by Wolfmark Secondary, the solution used for TF2 does not work for HL1 games, because things are a little bit different. Most of those fake servers don't have too much uptime, they are hosted by some kids for few hours only (when they don't play CS for example), the kids usually don't have a static IP, so you cannot score the fake servers, track their activity etc...

new servers would'nt be blocked right from the start, that's correct. but

Originally Posted by TF2 Blog New servers start with a score of 0 points

they would still never get above servers running for a while, so don't disturb you when trying to find "serious" servers that always at least have some points. they get their chance and trick a small amount of players into joining them, but then they are losing points fast.

and who wants to actually have public servers on hosted home connections with dynamic IPs in the global list anyway? the quality of such servers is usually poor. and some friends who want to start a small fun game on their own connection can still do that, they don't need the master server for that.
so simply extend the TF2 solution: when a server registers to the master server, show it after 24 hours if it is still running on this IP. if not, then not.

and also think of a second effect: sooner or later many abusers might give up on that when they notice their servers never get a good ranking in the list. some intractable idiots will always stay but the overall number of abusers will decrease.

Originally Posted by Wolfmark The only practical solution is to block the connect command.

you only spoke about TF2. what about CS:S? that at least gives players a choice. there are many people who only have their 10 regular servers, often these servers belong to the same community or at least some of them, so such players are especially likely to use a plugin like xREDIRECT regularly.
furthermore in CS:S afaik you can show a dynamic HTTP screen from out of a plugin mid game (not only MOTD at start). i believe i have seen a plugin similar to xREDIRECT using this feature, showing a list of serves with a steam:// link that can be clicked to connect to it. as hl1 is lacking such a possibility that is just one more reason to think twice about how a solution to the "connect" problem can work.

simply asking the user would also be a possibility. either with a popup window/menu or at least in console where the user can answer by pressing "y" or "n" and enter.

of course there are also several other possibilities. but as long as you people act like valve is bringing out sophisticated updates when they are just dumping some waste in good old HLDS noone will think about such things. it's like there is 100 good possibilities but valve chose number 101, the only one that's bad. but not everywhere, only in the old HL1 which suprisingly happens to be the same version that probably isn't leaving much of a margin anymore. i'm not saying it's active HL1 sabotage, i rather think they try to put as little as possible effort into a dying product.

and now i find myself in a weird situation: from an economic point of view i understand valve. so in the end i understand them much better than you people who seem to be happy with what you get.
could you explain again why you are still fighting on valve's side? i am really confused here, are you working for them or something? it seems to be simply illegitimate to still behave like they are doing the right thing.

[Wolfmark]

xOR, you cannot rank servers so easily. What they do for TF2 is to score servers and to delist the really bad ones, but they don't rank them. A server with a higher score is not necessarily better than a server with lower score. Think about CS 1.6, a 32 slots server (which according to current algorithm will have a high score) is better than a decent 16-20 slots server (which will score lower)? A lot of players will say no...

ps1: you can open a MOTD window for HL1 mods whenever you want for which player you want using show_motd AmxModX function, but you cannot use Steam URLs, they fixed this long time ago

ps2: every software has bugs, the one described in your screenshot was fixed since April/May 2009 updates

[Nextra]

Originally Posted by Wolfmark xOR, you cannot rank servers so easily. What they do for TF2 is to score servers and to delist the really bad ones, but they don't rank them. A server with a higher score is not necessarily better than a server with lower score. Think about CS 1.6, a 32 slots server (which according to current algorithm will have a high score) is better than a decent 16-20 slots server (which will score lower)? A lot of players will say no..

Incorrect. Servers are ranked from playing time. Each connecting player will give the server a -5 in score and the server will gradually gain score the longer the player is connected. It doesn't depend on the actual slot count just on how long players stay on the server. So even a 20-slot server can be above a 32 slot server unless you choose to sort by playercount ofc.

[xOR]

Originally Posted by Wolfmark What they do for TF2 is to score servers and to delist the really bad ones, but they don't rank them. A server with a higher score is not necessarily better than a server with lower score. Think about CS 1.6, a 32 slots server (which according to current algorithm will have a high score) is better than a decent 16-20 slots server (which will score lower)? A lot of players will say no...

additionally to what Nextra already remarked: you didn't address the home server thing. even without having new servers "sorted down", this way trash servers wouldn't get up.

Originally Posted by Wolfmark ps1: you can open a MOTD window for HL1 mods whenever you want for which player you want using show_motd AmxModX function, but you cannot use Steam URLs, they fixed this long time ago

you seem to know quite much about the topics that i am interested in right now. i'd be happy if you could check our counteraction thread, maybe you can contribute some ideas or some technical background information about what's possible and what's not.

Originally Posted by Wolfmark ps2: every software has bugs

oh cmon, could we skip the smartass stuff? you really made good points so far, no need to let captain obvious join the discussion.

Originally Posted by Wolfmark the one described in your screenshot was fixed since April/May 2009 updates

thanks for pointing out again that it was fixed more than a half year after their sloppy update broke it.

[Nextra]

I was kicked out of the beta with the message that the beta has now ended. This can only mean two things:

- Beta won't come.
- Beta will go live in a matter of hours or few days.