[msleeper]

I haven't reported posts just because people disagree with me, there is 8 pages of people disagreeing with me and I am fine with that. I have reported posts that are nothing but flames and personal attacks like this gold star post here and obviously Worm's above one. I fail to see anything that is constructive or useful in either post, it's just entirely flaming which I was under the impression was against the forum rules. If Worm really wants to ban me from any servers he has access to then that's fine, there are about a hundred ways of finding someone's SteamID including mine.

I am fully aware that the plugin "encourages" farming, as I have said before that is half of the goal is to make whatever server running this to fully appear as a "real" Achievement server. I never said that anybody was using elite hax, and I realize that making an achievement map and joining it to grind achievements is within the realm of how the game works. But I and a thin minority of other server admins do not want players who farm on our servers, hence the creation of the plugin.

I have no problem at all that the plugin is Unapproved, I was frankly surprised it was Approved in the first place given the controversial nature of it. I would argue that this plugin can stop people from farming on existing servers since I added and tested the cvar to only ban people after X number of Achievements earned. But I don't think I was in the wrong to report posts that are very clearly flame and spam.

[The Drunken Brawler]

Originally Posted by msleeper I would argue that this plugin can stop people from farming on existing servers since I added and tested the cvar to only ban people after X number of Achievements earned.

Please tell me what the magic number of achievements earned on a server is before its considered farming. What is the value of X achievements in your opinion

[msleeper]

I don't care if people try to earn achievements in real games. Personally I couldn't be happier with 12 people playing Scout, I have never had a more successful time as an Engineer in my life.

Though if someone wants to run it that way, I would suggest setting it to 4 or 5 during the first few days of an Update, and then lowering it to 3 or 4 after that. This of course depends on the timelimit in the server, servers running shorter or longer timelimits would need to adjust accordingly.

[Cooltad]

I can easily get 10 ach in less than 30 min playing NORMALLY if I flush out my ach and re-lock them.
There is no number you can set it to that won't totally fuck over normal players.

[msleeper]

Well that is up to the individual server admins.

[MjrNuT]

Hence, it is a meaningless and unfounded argue-ment for X cheese in X minutes and other case in between, inside the box, outside the box, etc. Furthermore, in general you'd have so many variations of what constitutes a normal server.

/sarcasm]

Can't everyone out there hear that Scout/Sniper/Demoman/Soldier/etc. class left to receive UPdate say in a server...OMG, don't give me any more cheese!! Seriously, I don't want to be BANNNED!!

/sarcasm

[recon0]

I would like to remind everyone that msleeper can code any plugin he wants, and he can publish it. Those are his rights under the First Amendment.

Further more, it is the right of the community (again, under the First Amendment) to express their displeasure with said plugin.

That being said, I think constantly abusing and flaming the author is a bit much (in fact, there's a word to describe what's happening: harassment).


It's not surprising how passionate people are about this plugin after seeing that msleeper posted a rather extensive list of banned IDs.

As a server administrator, I think it's irresponsible to post that many IDs when the only proof of so called "cheating" that you have is that your plugin caught them getting an achievement in your server. But hey, that's just my opinion. People disagree. If two people debate something at length, and it's obvious that they can't agree or find a middle ground, then it's time to agree to disagree



I want to remind everyone that the second you connect to a SRCDS server, the following actions occur (some are limited by client cvars, but in general, this is what happens):

1. The server can log your IP address and Steam ID
2. The server can download custom files to your client

During your time in the server, the server operators (aka admins) can at any time choose to:

1. Run commands on your client console (limited on some mods)
2. Run server commands that effect your game play
3. Check your IP address or Steam ID
4. Ban you (either by IP or Steam ID)

As a server admin, msleeper is perfectly within his rights to ban whome ever he wants for whatever reason he wants. It's up to players if they want to play in his server.

Although many of you may disagree with me, he is also perfectly within his rights to post the contents of his ban list.

[Durzel]

Where do you draw the line though?

If someone writes a plugin that replaces textures with pornographic images - does it get approved? If not, why not? It works by design so why shouldn't it get approved?

Frankly I'm disappointed this got approved in the first place as if nothing else I'm sure msleeper felt it vindicated him and his opinions (he was quick to post about it being approved on the Steam forums after all). It is a purely malicious bit of work devised by someone who seriously needs to get some perspective on what's important and what isn't.

You can argue that "anyone can write anything" and "server admins can ban anyone" all you want, whilst you are technically correct it is so beyond the expected norm as to be considered ridiculous. I don't think the community should be encouraging completely off-tangent prohibitions like this, it's bad enough that some plugins can skew ones experience of a game wildly without malicious plugins designed purely to further one mans crusade.

[recon0]

Originally Posted by Durzel Where do you draw the line though? If someone writes a plugin that replaces textures with pornographic images - does it get approved? If not, why not? It works by design so why shouldn't it get approved? Frankly I'm disappointed this got approved in the first place as if nothing else I'm sure msleeper felt it vindicated him and his opinions (he was quick to post about it being approved on the Steam forums after all). It is a purely malicious bit of work devised by someone who seriously needs to get some perspective on what's important and what isn't. You can argue that "anyone can write anything" and "server admins can ban anyone" all you want, whilst you are technically correct it is so beyond the expected norm as to be considered ridiculous. I don't think the community should be encouraging completely off-tangent prohibitions like this, it's bad enough that some plugins can skew ones experience of a game wildly without malicious plugins designed purely to further one mans crusade.

I have to disagree with you calling it malicious, seeing as the word does not apply:

Having the nature of or resulting from malice; deliberately harmful; spiteful: malicious gossip.

If admins act unreasonable, players stop playing in the server where the problem is occurring.

If an admin wants to run a server where no achievement farmers are allowed, it's their choice.

[Durzel]

It's not spiteful?

spite 1. a malicious, usually petty, desire to harm, annoy, frustrate, or humiliate another person; bitter ill will; malice. 2. a particular instance of such an attitude or action; grudge.

Frankly I think this plugin & the authors motives is the very definition of spiteful/malicious behaviour.

Also, you haven't refuted what I've said. Just because something works by design doesn't mean it should be condoned. As said just because it's possible for an admin to do things to users with SM, ban them for any reason he/she sees fit, doesn't mean that we - as a community - should condone malicious intent wrought through plugins.