[Powerlord]

Originally Posted by Martijn79 So If you disable SELinux then you shouldn't use CentOS, that's what you're saying? So people, businesses, everybody only runs CentOS just because of SELinux? There are perhaps 100 more reasons for me and others to choose CentOS over Debian, not just because of SELinux.

There are reasons not to use CentOS too, the first being yum and rpm. The second being that CentOS (like RHEL) tends to be out of date... you'll notice I mentioned the same thing about Debian earlier.

That isn't to say other distros don't have their problems. Even the LTS version of Ubuntu have a new version of the Linux kernel basically every week. I know I've installed something like 14 security updates already this month and we're only 5 days in. And this is on a system that has nothing but srcds, nginx basic, and my SourceMod Linux compilation environment (so... gcc, g++, make, mercurial, etc...)

Originally Posted by Martijn79 Anyway since you advice somebody with an 8 GB box to use a 32-bit operating system I won't take any offense for you calling me a noob. And you're right 64 bit uses more ram and more disk but hmmm let me see he only has 8 GB RAM and 500 GB disk space so yeah go for 32 bit because you might run out of that very quickly.....

64-bit programs tend to take slightly more memory because the pointer size is doubled on 64-bit architectures (8 bytes instead of 4). Other than that, 64-bit programs should run faster than 32-bit simply because of certain optimizations it can use (such as the processor having twice the number of general purpose registers).

Having said that, srcds is a 32-bit program, so it doesn't take advantage of any of the 64-bit optimizations and 32-bit programs run slightly slower on 64-bit OSes than they do on 32-bit OSes.

Originally Posted by Martijn79 Running 32-bit with a PAE kernel while you have enough resources is just stupid. I guess you're running Windows 7 32-bit on your home PC as well right?

Windows has a Microsoft-forced limit of 4GB RAM on its 32-bit versions. Windows Server 2008 32-bit doesn't have this same restriction in its higher editions despite running on relatively the same core as Vista (which had the same limitation 7 does). I'd mention Windows Server 2008 R2, but MS doesn't even recognize it has a 32-bit version on that page.

[asherkin]

The amount of misinformation in this thread is terrifying, also the amount of passing opinions off as rational choices.

I'm typing this on my phone at 5am, so I apologise in advance for any typos or ballsed up formatting.

The 64-bit vs 32-bit with PAE debate is pointless - the same address space mapping has to be done on both for 32-bit programs if you have more than 4GB of RAM. With SRCDS being the primary consumer, the larger pointer size for 64-bit programs is also a non-issue.

On the Debian- vs. RedHat-based debate, try (at least one of) both and see what you like. The major differing points for most people are the packaging system (apt/deb vs. yum/rpm, however you can install one on the other, you just will have trouble finding working packages), and the directory layout used for most of the system files and distro-provided packages.

After you've made your choice there, you need to pick a distro you like - this is mainly a factor of support, release cycle, and packaging guidelines. Some decent options for each:

• Debian:
  • Debian itself - very slow release cycle with long-term support, is primarily a package source for Ubuntu nowadays so development releases can be very flaky.
  • Ubuntu - consumer-faced desktop OS, huge array of packages, relatively fast release cycle with quite short rolling support window. Valve's primary target for support.
  • Ubuntu LTS - server-focused releases of Ubuntu (with all the same advantages), decent release cycle if you want to update (yearly?), but security and other important fixes get back ported for a decent number of years.
• RedHat:
  • Fedora - consumer-oriented version of RHEL (backed by RH), twice-yearly releases with a year of support. Good array of packages and lots of bleeding-edge stuff available for opt-in.
  • CentOS - community fork of RHEL packages, thus with very long support terms. Known for having very outdated packages although I hear 6 has been a lot better in this regard than 5 was.
  • ScientificLinux - I don't know if this is still around, was an alternative to CentOS with (reportedly) much better packaging.

Of course there are other major options, particularly Slackware and openSUSE, but I don't know enough about each to include them here, along with hundreds of minor forks of the above.

As for opinions, I personally run Fedora on all my servers (having migrated from CentOS a couple of years ago). The short support cycle is a PITA, but it's worth it for me to get a RedHat based distro with great support and plenty of modern features. Tools like Puppet or Chef make distro upgrades (and oh-fuck-my-server-is-gone moments) a lot less painful.

Finally, Powerlord, the reason the limit is 4GB in 32-bit consumer editions of Windows is because that's the size of the address space and PAE support is disabled by default - it's as trivial as adding a boot option to enable it.

[Powerlord]

Originally Posted by asherkin Ubuntu - consumer-faced desktop OS, huge array of packages, relatively fast release cycle with quite short rolling support window. Valve's primary target for support.

This is Valve's primary target for its Linux game clients. This distinction is important as it's why the whole _srv.so thing started... server.so and the like are compiled against a recent GLIBC (2.15 specifically), whereas server_srv.so and the like are compiled against an older version.

Unfortunately, this only applies to srcds, as it sounds like the latest hlds requires GLIBC 2.15 or newer on the server side as well. Which Debian 7, RHEL 6, and CentOS 6 don't have.

Originally Posted by asherkin Ubuntu LTS - server-focused releases of Ubuntu (with all the same advantages), decent release cycle if you want to update (yearly?), but security and other important fixes get back ported for a decent number of years.

Ubuntu LTS is (supposedly) bugfixes only with no major package version changes. It's updated every two years, with the current version (12.04) being 2012 April. Meaning that the next LTS release is 14.04 due out next April.

However, Ubuntu themselves don't even recommend updating to the latest LTS release until some time after it has come out (4-6 months?).

Oh, and the reason I said supposedly earlier is that I routinely see packages that aren't marked as security updates in my list... the default post-login message every so helpfully keeps those separated.

I'll be honest, one of the reasons I use Ubuntu LTS now is because I've been using Debian-based servers for over a decade.

Originally Posted by asherkin Finally, Powerlord, the reason the limit is 4GB in 32-bit consumer editions of Windows is because that's the size of the address space and PAE support is disabled by default - it's as trivial as adding a boot option to enable it.

If that were only the case. I'm afraid you'll find the /pae boot.ini switch or bcdedit /set pae ForceEnable feature doesn't work on most versions of 32-bit Windows because Microsoft has intentionally disabled it so you need to shell out cash for a more expensive edition.

[Zephyrus]

Originally Posted by Martijn79 So If you disable SELinux then you shouldn't use CentOS, that's what you're saying? So people, businesses, everybody only runs CentOS just because of SELinux? There are perhaps 100 more reasons for me and others to choose CentOS over Debian, not just because of SELinux. Anyway since you advice somebody with an 8 GB box to use a 32-bit operating system I won't take any offense for you calling me a noob. And you're right 64 bit uses more ram and more disk but hmmm let me see he only has 8 GB RAM and 500 GB disk space so yeah go for 32 bit because you might run out of that very quickly..... Running 32-bit with a PAE kernel while you have enough resources is just stupid. I guess you're running Windows 7 32-bit on your home PC as well right?

1. if you refuse to set up your system properly and you are ok with decreasing security for the ease then you are a lousy sysadmin, and it doesnt matter what you use because as i just said, you were lousy. http://stopdisablingselinux.com/

2. you are still being retarded, why use 64bit OS if you exclusively run a single 32 bit application? as i say for the third time now, if you use it for anything else, then use 64bit. and 32 bit can handle 8gbs of memory just fine. did you even know that a 32 bit system with PAE kernel can handle upto 128gigs of ram?

3. 8gb ram isnt that much, you can run like 3 csgo servers with that before that memory leaking garbage eats up all your memory, so yes, that few hundred mbs of extra ram can help a lot.

[Powerlord]

Originally Posted by Zephyrus 1. if you refuse to set up your system properly and you are ok with decreasing security for the ease then you are a lousy sysadmin, and it doesnt matter what you use because as i just said, you were lousy. http://stopdisablingselinux.com/ 2. you are still being retarded, why use 64bit OS if you exclusively run a single 32 bit application? as i say for the third time now, if you use it for anything else, then use 64bit. and 32 bit can handle 8gbs of memory just fine. did you even know that a 32 bit system with PAE kernel can handle upto 128gigs of ram?

Why would you need to run SELinux if you're just running a single application?

Oh right, because the OS has a bunch of stuff it also runs.

The problem with running SELinux when you're running game servers is that SELinux throws this neat message for srcds by default:

./srcds_linux: error while loading shared libraries: bin/libtier0.so: cannot restore segment prot after reloc: Permission denied

(note: this is probably libtier0_srv.so for most games)

This is fixable by a chcon command, but you have to do this every time you update the server. For some games (read: TF2) updates happen 1 or more times a week on average.

Alternately, you can create a new security policy module for srcds... except I have no clue how to do that and I doubt most people here do.

[Zephyrus]

Originally Posted by Powerlord Why would you need to run SELinux if you're just running a single application? Oh right, because the OS has a bunch of stuff it also runs. The problem with running SELinux when you're running game servers is that SELinux throws this neat message for srcds by default: ./srcds_linux: error while loading shared libraries: bin/libtier0.so: cannot restore segment prot after reloc: Permission denied (note: this is probably libtier0_srv.so for most games) This is fixable by a chcon command, but you have to do this every time you update the server. For some games (read: TF2) updates happen 1 or more times a week on average. Alternately, you can create a new security policy module for srcds... except I have no clue how to do that and I doubt most people here do.

id like to hear the reasons to use centos then. there are countless rpm/yum based distros other than centos. one of the most unique features of centos/redhat/fedora that it has selinux enforced by default and it has strict policies so that the packages in the repos must have proper selinux policies. you cant tell the same about debian, where you can set up selinux, but theres no guarantee that the packages would have proper policies for themselves. btw ive advised using debian in the first place, why set up a system, mess with configuring it (disabling selinux, installing proper 32 bit libraries if you want to use 64 bit) when you can just install a 64-bit debian and do apt-get install ia32-libs, or just install a 32 bit debian and start installing steamcmd right away. btw i have selinux policies set up for srcds on all my centos based machines / virtual machines, i may write a tutorial sometime

edit: theres just no reason to use centos/redhat if you disable selinux. even if you have EPEL installed you still have a lot less available packages than any distro by default, so having at least a basic knowledge and time to spend on setting up your system is required. why not just setup selinux properly as well?

[Jargon]

I'm using CentOS6 to run 3 CS:GO servers and had no idea about this whole SELinux thing, I've had zero issues with it though and everything is running smooth and stable for the most part. This thread wasn't around when I was picking OS' but I just stuck with what I knew.

Does any of this stuff matter unless you're running on the bleeding edge of your resources?

[vartaxe]

hi,

i just finished assembling my new server and was wondering which distro or windows to use...

i must admit im new to linux and want to run mostly csgo and tf2 servers.

so what do you guys recomend?

ps: i'm also new to game servers... but have knowledge in windows servers... just want to have my own csgo server

[Spirit_12]

Debian 8 or latest Ubuntu are good platforms for Linux newbies. I usually build my systems on Gentoo, as I like my packets to be locally compiled.

[hamilton5]

yeah this was a pretty good thread in 2013... obviously this guy/bot didn't read any of it and is only posting..