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TF2 Achievement Honeypot Plugin


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chikencarnage
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Old 02-28-2009 , 04:55   Re: TF2 Achievement Honeypot Plugin
Reply With Quote #41

man i can't believe all the crying over this plugin. I saw all the bs on the mailing list, didn't realize it had gotten here too. it's just a plugin people and it's not being forced upon anyone to run it, so if you disagree with it.......don't run it!

anyways, sleeper i applaud you for putting up with this shit. some people just have to realize that just because they don't agree with something, doesn't mean it should be bannished.
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Downtown1
Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Old 03-01-2009 , 02:50   Re: TF2 Achievement Honeypot Plugin
Reply With Quote #42

Wow, entrapment anyone?
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Cooltad
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Old 03-03-2009 , 01:03   Re: TF2 Achievement Honeypot Plugin
Reply With Quote #43

I personally used the unlocker to unlock them all for the Scout weapons; and then since I wanted a challenge and fun I re-locked them afterwards so I could re-earn them. =D

And a good player can easy get more than 1-3 achievements in a 30 min period if they are starting off fresh; this plugin bans those players and that seems not only unfair, but illogical.

Farming players that others might not want is what votekick and voteban were made for.

I personally won't be using this plugin, ever. There is a 13-page thread on Steam Forums about people who even hate Msleeper now because of this plugin and have cited intense critisizm for the large list published on his website.
Overall I believe your not simply banning anyone for any logical reason of farming, I think it is just biased banning because of your opinion on the matter. An opinion which does not represent facts as per the ever-so obvious of the public's stance on the matter.

People don't farm for the acheivements, they farm for the weapon-unlockables. Banning based on farming is wrong because of this, no if-and-or-buts' about it.
3,560 people banned is quite a staggering number. 13,439 give-or-take play per day, so you've banned a large percentage of the TF2 community already. That is rediculous.

And maybe someone joins that ach server to fuck up the players farming? Maybe some reason other than to farm?
No, your plugin cannot take this into account, furthering it's reasons for being wrong. You wrongfully trick honest and good players into being banned across a ton of servers.

Aside from the above, I believe your plugin could be modified for better purposes so it is a good base for such.
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Last edited by Cooltad; 03-03-2009 at 01:06.
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CrimsonGT
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Gainesville, FL
Old 03-03-2009 , 02:44   Re: TF2 Achievement Honeypot Plugin
Reply With Quote #44

I do and don't agree with this plugin. MSleeper found a cause he wants to fight for and he went with it. Hes putting up with crap from a massive amount of people and standing by what he thinks, so in that he commands respect. I personally am not a fan of people farming achievement weapons, but I dont really think going to these lengths is worth it personally. Theres 50 other achievement farming servers out there that the players can go to, and banning them from a couple servers isnt going to do much but eliminate a good chunk of players that would play there normally.

I do find the arguement a lot of people make about "I have a job, I have school, etc" to be rather silly and redundant. You can easily get your first weapon in an hour or two. Im not really saying I care one way or the other, just dont think that arguement is really justified as it really isn't that difficult to complete most of them, especially now that things are semi normal again.

Anyways, more power to you MSleeper for standing by what you think. And to those of you that farm achievements every update, nothings going to stop you aside from maybe a ban. Either way neither side will win, but its fun to watch
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msleeper
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Atlanta, Jawjuh
Old 03-03-2009 , 03:11   Re: TF2 Achievement Honeypot Plugin
Reply With Quote #45

I've said it before, I'm not trying to "win" anything. I have no illusion that I am going to persuade anyone on either side of the argument. Either you agree with farming, or you don't.

What I am trying to do is add some counterweight for the anti-farming supporters out there. That's all.
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Cooltad
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Old 03-03-2009 , 03:42   Re: TF2 Achievement Honeypot Plugin
Reply With Quote #46

No, you are not. You are forcing normal servers to ban players who may have only either attempted farming once, and won't do it on a normal sever, along with banning players who are skilled and able to receive achievements quickly.

That 3,000-player list you have is extremely biased against normal players and not just farmers. A farmer player will not farm on a normal server; that's just common knowledge. If a player still farms on a normal server (a very small fraction of the 3k you've banned) then the other players may opt to voteban the player, or an admin ban or kick them.
Because of the sheer fact that a great majority of those that may farm only farm on actual servers that hold in their names "farming server".
I have just checked and it seems adding the 3k banned list is optional, so I'm not as harsh about this as I was an hour ago.

Still, Gabe in an interview said:
If people want to get together on a server with their friends to crank out the Achievements, then that's an interesting way to play the game, and as long as they're having fun, they can go ahead and do that!

So it really doesn't matter whether a player farms or not. Considering the team made the game, they do get to decide what is considered cheating and what is not initially, and so far they seem to have no problem whatsoever with farmers and farming servers.

I personally don't mind farmers in my servers if they're mostly empty, but when I have many people in their I simply ask them to leave and they do. No bans are necessary. Regardless of your opinion, instant-banning after getting a single ach is over-the-top. You should find a new way to punish ach spammers. Perhaps ban them on your servers from using they're new weapons? That way everyone wins and no one gets pissed at you for banning them. In fact, I think that idea is quite good.
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msleeper
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Atlanta, Jawjuh
Old 03-03-2009 , 03:55   Re: TF2 Achievement Honeypot Plugin
Reply With Quote #47

I fully realize that a farmer player will not farm on a normal server, that they will go to a server specifically setup to help them gain their achievements as quickly as possible with less effort than in real games. That is exactly the intended target of the plugin. Those are the people that I want to block. I don't know how the list is biased against normal players. What do you define a "normal" player as?

Once again, I think you have fallen victim to thinking that is plugin should be run on any old server. This plugin is NOT meant to be used on your normal 2fort/Dustbowl/whatever server. It is meant to be used on a server running an achievement box, as a honeypot. (Technically it might work on a regular server, but I have not tested if it is effective there. In theory it should though.)

I am also aware of that article, in fact I just updated my page with a canned response to that.

I think that you think that I don't understand what you are saying, but I do. We are on the same page, really. You just don't agree with, or more likely don't like, what I believe here.
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msleeper
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Atlanta, Jawjuh
Old 03-03-2009 , 05:36   Re: TF2 Achievement Honeypot Plugin
Reply With Quote #48

I also have a canned response to the "but I don't have time" argument on my updated page.
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kilorat
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Old 03-03-2009 , 05:41   Re: TF2 Achievement Honeypot Plugin
Reply With Quote #49

I only run one achievement box, and I could send you the 80,000 steamids that connected to my achievement server since last May, and 50,000 have unlocked at least one achievement there. I made a plugin track when people unlock achievements so that's how I got that data.
I guess you'd need a plugin to manage the bans, since you'd exceed the banlist limit.
And this is just ONE server, there are about 80 servers with "achievement" in the title right now, granted most aren't 32 slots.

I disagree that achievement farming is wrong, I think Valve is wrong for forcing everyone to jump through hoops in order to get weapons that balance the class, I'd rather play a fair game than have a game filled with haves and have nots. I resent someone saying they want to "take a stand against" something that is a preference. You will not stop us, I believe that forcing someone to earn achievements to unlock weapons is wrong, so I also took a stand against that and put up an achievement server. 80 others have as well. You will not change everyone opinion by force, but I do acknowledge your right to run a straight edge server with no farmers on it. So by all means perma ban me and all my users.

edit: removed some redundant things because they were already discussed in this thread.

Last edited by kilorat; 03-03-2009 at 05:57.
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Durzel
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Old 03-03-2009 , 06:51   Re: TF2 Achievement Honeypot Plugin
Reply With Quote #50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Menkoman View Post
Does farming affect him in anyway shape or form? No. He just has an inferiority complex because he thinks achievements = internet status. I have used an unlocker to get all the new weapons because unlocking weapons by achievements is an arbitrary and dated system. This isn't XBL buddy.
I have to say I agree with this 100%.

I really don't understand the motivation for a plugin like this. If there was a finite number of unlock "slots" available (e.g. only the first 10000 people who hit the milestones would get the unlocks) then I could understand wanting to stop people getting achievements illegitimately, but as there isn't - what's the point?

Someone getting the unlockable weapons (or the achievements) doesn't affect you in any way shape or form. It doesn't deny you the right to getting them yourself. The only reason one would take issue with other people getting achievements illegitimately would be if that person took achievements far too seriously. As the guy quoted eruditely put it, "this isn't XBL buddy".

Valve made a mistake tieing viable unlockable weapons & skills to achievements as it forces everyone who wants to remain competitive to grind achievements - legitimately or not - to get them.

From a purely dispassionate point of view a plugin that bans people from a server if they unlock an achievement is about as retarded an idea as I can think of as plugins go. People will earn some achievements through normal play, that's the point (they don't get them in their sleep oddly enough) - and setting up a server specifically running an achievement map just to catch people out is the definition of passive aggressiveness. Want to rally against the "cheaters"? Just don't provide them with a server in the first place.
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