[Rebell]

... and is it sooooo hard to port/code/compile a plugin to source:mm ?

[lunatic00]

Originally Posted by flyingmongoose For maximum compatibility between plugins SourceMM is best. In otherwords: VIP Mod = SourceMM If you use beetlesmod + vip mod, you *WILL* have map changing issues GoreMod + Non-SM Hostitron + Non-SM BOTH will create issues, it's a recorded and known FACT by the developer of GoreMod and Hostitron (c0ld), and the only solution so far that he's found is to urge the developer of these other plugins to move into SourceMM. So, there is valid reason for any developer to move his plugins to SourceMM, that is maximum compatibility between plugins. I just had to answer the "no reason to port" post, because that bothered me.

Yeah maybe if you use beetlesmod there is, it a very hacky done plugin, I don't think it will ever make as a MM:S port, hell his Linux port still has the same bugs that were reported back in June.
Comparing beetlesmod to other properly coded server plugins is a slap in the face to those other plugins, and only demonstrates ignorance.

------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe a good reason to not port would be the FACT that there are 30,881 Counter-Strike:Source and only 1615 find a need to use MM:S?
Source for that fact is from using http://www.game-monitor.com/


The majority of servers have no need for silly mods that completely change game play, or to add dependency on an API they have no real need of. All they want is a mod that lets them admin they way they feel they need to, and until there's a script-able mod most will stick to what they have.

The Devs here have clearly stated their displeasure with Source, I can only think that is why development has been slow and the wonders that were to be Source Mod have not seen the light of day as of yet. They have even stated they see no need or demand for it, that conflicts with the so odd 30,000 server ops that want the control and customization they were able to have in old CS.

I come to the source Mod forums daily, in hopes to one day finding something like an AMX mod available. The day one is released will be the day I will happily move our servers over to it. But until then I have no reason to have our server dependent on something we don't need.

I know, I know, It's all Valves lousy APIs fault, oh wait there's this new API called MM:S, but oh yeah I forgot there is still no script-able mod that will allow for the customization that server ops want.

Until there's a script-able mod that server ops want and need, they will continue to resist adding dependency on something they don't need.

So instead of drawing lines between those who choose to use MM:S and those that have not found a need for it yet. Maybe the answer to getting server ops to mover to MM:S would be someone making a stable script-able mod that will allow for the customization that server ops want.

[FlyingMongoose]

So instead of drawing lines between those who choose to use MM:S and those that have not found a need for it yet. Maybe the answer to getting server ops to mover to MM:S would be someone making a stable script-able mod that will allow for the customization that server ops want.

You know full well that that is not going to happen for a while.

Besides, SourceMM has to come first anyway.

And besides, any time you try to push any software outside it's "natural" limits it becomes unstable, so even running VSP based simple mods could potentially cause instability.

However I've noticed a majoritively higher stability rate in SourceMM Mods/Plugins over VSP. However this is through personal experience.

If there is a SourceMM alternative to any VSP based plugin, I will always take the sourcemm option first.

[Shadowdogg]

Maybe a good reason to not port would be the FACT that there are 30,881 Counter-Strike:Source and only 1615 find a need to use MM:S? Source for that fact is from using http://www.game-monitor.com/

How can you find MM:S as it isn't even a 'plugin' as such to be searched from game-monitor?

[awuh0]

metamod_version "1.2"
is a public cvar

[Mattie]

Source:MM is incredibly powerful. That brilliant team has put together a function hooking library in a very solid and reliable way-- I've done virtual function and static function hooking about 4 different ways across plugins and theirs is light years better. I love it.

If you need to hook functions and you need to be compatible with other plugins that hook functions, I can't endorse Source:MM enough. It's by far the way to go.

That being said, there are many plugins (especially small ones that only have 1 or 2 tasks) which would get no benefit in stability or performance from moving to Source:MM.

Strictly speaking, by moving to Source:MM when they do not need to, those plugins get inherently less stable because of the dependency on the underlying library. Even if Source:MM maintained 100% backwards compatibility with their own API and Steam updates didn't break them very often, a plugin developer would still have to re-release and support plugins more often than they would otherwise.

For my EventScripts plugin, there's absolutely no hooking at all. As a result, it's rather resilient when it comes to Valve changes. You can use the version of ES from June of last year just fine today. If I added dependencies onto other layers, I would almost certainly need to update more often and admins would need to update their servers more often.

Source:MM opens a lot of doors regarding possible functionality. Things you simply can't get at all by using Valve's Server Plugins. As a result, mods that don't move to Source:MM will have less functionality on average than those that do.

EventScripts could have many more features if I hooked more functions, but since there is such a large user/script base built on top of it, I can't afford to risk stability, retest every bit of functionality and require updates whenever SourceMM updates. As a result, I'm not sure the return-on-investment is there to move EventScripts to SourceMM-- especially without some really cool additions.

I'm not sure if other plugin authors feel the same, but I can certainly see how it might be hard for them to move automatically to SourceMM if they don't need the functionality.

As I write new plugins, I'll almost certainly use SourceMM especially if they need to do tricky things. (If they didn't need to do something tricky, I'd probably just write a script.) Existing plugins should be considered on a case-by-case basis.

Anyway, just my $.02 on the whole SourceMM conversion topic,
-Mattie