[KrazyKat]

Originally Posted by Psyk0tik The word "propaganda" is defined as "information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view."

According to your definition, this is exactly what's happening. Bias for a particular community, and not for others, thus being propaganda.

Originally Posted by Psyk0tik It's just a logo and you're reading too deep into it.

Make our X community a logo too, in that case. Nothing against the LGBTQIA+ community, but what you think is right, might be excluding millions of people who deserve more.

Originally Posted by Psyk0tik AlliedModders isn't obligated to be nor does it present itself as a group/organization that brings awareness and attention to different communities/causes/issues/movements.

Then why should they promote one community over the other?

Originally Posted by Psyk0tik If the first thing people think of when they see the colorful logo is "Do I have to be homosexual/non-binary to get special attention" then there's a lot of self-reflection that is well overdue.

That's what's happening all around you. Read the news, talk to a bunch of people, have debates with them, and you'll get a better picture of the world. If you need any specific examples, you can quote me back.

Originally Posted by Psyk0tik AM gains nothing from changing the logo, and yet they do it every year because they celebrate Pride Month.

They showcase themselves as being advertiser-friendly, and thus can secure certain sponsorships from politically leaning companies, than those who wouldn't make the change. Even then, propaganda doesn't have to be profitable, see Twitter.

Originally Posted by Psyk0tik You're making baseless assumptions about the AM community when I doubt you've actually talked to a majority of the members here. Not everyone needs to publicly come out as LGBTQIA+ just to prove that they identify as such.

I never made any baseless assumptions about anyone. The general consensus is, if you even remotely talk about the LGBTQIA+ community that doesn't fit in their agenda, you'll be ostracized and bullied, receive backlash from people, lose your job, and be a victim to cancel culture. This is what makes people afraid to stand up and rationally argue their positions about the case.

Originally Posted by Psyk0tik You mentioned religion, guns, and abortion, so I'll explain why all three of those are irrelevant.

You're enforcing your belief onto others that special treatment must be given to a particular community, just because you feel it's right. This can be done for almost every other community, because you feel inclined towards it.

Originally Posted by Psyk0tik If AM were to enforce their views onto all of us in regards to those 3 topics, then I would agree that it's a political agenda, but labeling the celebration of Pride Month as such is just extremely disingenuous and absurd.

Acting as an activist about the LGBTQIA+ community by brandishing a logo is being biased towards a particular ideology, and that's pretty much a political agenda like the ones I mentioned above. Being non-partisan about topics like these is what brings unity in a chaotic world.

Originally Posted by Psyk0tik So then we're all in agreement that the LGBTQIA+ community is allowed to exist and celebrate Pride Month? Celebrating Pride Month only "divides" people if some of them refuse to accept the existence of others.

People can do whatever they like in their personal lives, however pushing one agenda over the other on a public forum, isn't what I consider morally correct. If you are inclusive towards one community, you should be inclusive towards many others, because every person has such inclinations. This is not plausible in the long run, and therefore, pleasing a particular community over the other is problematic. As a community that oversees hundreds of thousands of people who're here to script and develop interesting things, this divides people more than you'd imagine.

Originally Posted by Psyk0tik I get what you're trying to say, and I do share the same sentiment that we should all be treated equally. However, changing the logo to celebrate Pride Month isn't "glorifying" a particular group over everyone else.

At least we have a common-ground on this topic. Everyone must be treated fairly and equally without a personal or political bias. But when you treat someone else more favorably than the other, I find that to be an issue. Based on conversations I've had with people who belong in the LGBTQIA+ community publicly, many of them can see through the hypocrisy of this.

"Why can't we have pride everyday, instead of just one month?" is what most people feel. Placing a logo starting June 1st and then ending on August 1st doesn't do anything but make the LGBTQIA+ community feel excluded all year round. They see that corporations do this to score brownie points and not to really make them feel included.

Originally Posted by Psyk0tik I can see how people would see the logo change as "pandering" to the LGBTQIA+ community

That's exactly the issue here, like I pointed out earlier. Many people hate this idea, because this doesn't bring equality, and also makes people hate themselves for who they are. That's not how you drive a change, that's how you make people fight against each other.

Originally Posted by Psyk0tik I didn't see the post before it was removed so I can't really say much about it. Were you explicitly told that it was removed for being off-topic or are you just assuming that's the reason? With how you've described your own post, it sounds like it got removed for something else.

It was listed as a reason aside my deleted post, with no particular justification or a PM to me as to what they felt was off-topic. It felt as if I made the moderator angry over the posts here, and they wanted to showcase their superiority over me.

[KrazyKat]

Originally Posted by Domino_ Right off the bat, it’s a massive red flag that you seem to think adding some pretty coloured lines to a logo in the top corner of the forum is in any way propaganda, let alone it being shoved down your throat.

You're demeaning the entire LGBTQIA+ community by stating that their logo is just mere "pretty colored lines". This is pretty much the definition of propaganda if you think one community should be given attention over the other.

Originally Posted by Domino_ Good, but that has nothing to do with the issue at hand, visibility is an important part of civil rights movements, the fact you go on to take issue with this somewhat contradicts your claim here.

Visibility can be brought in ways that do not divide or exclude other communities from it. A simple way to do so is by giving everyone respect for who they are. If you find yourself being treated unfairly, there are laws and rules that protect you. Corporate logos fail to achieve that because they cause more divisiveness amongst the general audience than you can imagine, therefore driving more hate. You always have donations and charities to support the communities you think deserve it. However, that doesn't impose me to do the same thing.

Originally Posted by Domino_ Being “Gay/etc” is not something you choose to be, and to suggest otherwise clearly highlights the importance of bringing increased visibility to the movement.

Not true. It's a sexual preference, and people can choose to be what they so please. I can be gay if I wanted to without being questioned by anyone. But yes, transgender people are different.

Originally Posted by Domino_ This makes absolutely no sense, you seem to be suggesting that due to some unspecified biases, the AM staff are reluctant to accept the disingenuousness of their pandering to corporations and advertisers.

What's so unspecified about it? They clearly stated they have a few people in their staff that belong to the community.

Originally Posted by Domino_ Well, you answered your own question, it explains why the logo has changed.

No, it didn't. Read my posts again for better clarity.

Originally Posted by Domino_ And you are clearly in the former but not the latter. It’s pretty clear that you’re rather bothered by it, so what do the people who aren’t have to do with it?

Stated this in my reply to Psykotik. People don't want to risk their lives.

Originally Posted by Domino_ This is a completely disjointed point which has nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

What's so different about being biased about one thing and not another?

Originally Posted by Domino_ Your choice of language here is, again, a massive red flag. Your entire post just screams of discomfort with the people in this community and that you’d rather have them out of sight and out of mind. You start a sentence claiming you don’t like divisions based on sexuality or gender, but end it with language used to distinguish biological sex.

Heterosexual people (Biologically Male/Female) do not belong to the LGBTQIA+ community. I never used any words to cause discomfort to anyone, it's a rational argument. You're being discomforted because you're biased towards it, not others.

Originally Posted by Domino_ You’re either very naive or just being disingenuous. Civil rights are always fought for, telling minorities to be quiet and grateful is frankly rather discomforting to read.

You're fighting the wrong fight. Equality cannot be forced upon people, as it makes people more rebellious. No one is asking any minorities to be quiet, you're just putting words in my mouth. However taking a political stance for other people on this community (Muslims, for example) isn't the correct way to go about this.

Originally Posted by Domino_ Acceptance of all forms almost always comes from interpersonal exposure to our differences.

Equality comes from treating people the right way irrespective of anything that divides us. Differences make people more divided amongst the human race. Accepting them is reaching equality.

Originally Posted by Domino_ How would you know?

Check the public discourse, both for and against to be unbiased about the situation.

Originally Posted by Domino_ Your final on topic remarks here really drive home how little you understand the issues faced. Many people, for a multitude of reasons, are not treated equally. You really ought to reflect why people are fighting for their civil rights and why complaining and pushing back against it is pretty distasteful.

You're being quite distasteful for what seems like a logical argument. You also invalidate those who have similar opinions as mine, and cannot debate about them in a rational but rather think more emotionally about this. I care about the community, but I know that there are many wrongs that need to be corrected to make people more equal and less divisive.

Originally Posted by HamletEagle To play devil's advocate: this is an off-topic sub-forum for threads that do not fit in other sub-forums. However, you still have to be on-topic inside a thread here, just like everywhere else in this forum. I'm not discussing his points or if you were indeed off-topic or not, just explaining what he meant(in my opinion).

Yeah, that's what I meant to suggest, thanks Hamlet!

[MsDysphie]

Logo looks awesome! ♥ Thanks c:

[Voltron]

I'm curious... it's 2022 now.

Why do we still need things like pride month?

[Mordekay]

Because there are still many countries and people around the world, that suppress, criminalize and haunt people from the LGBTQ community.

[MaNaReaver]

Originally Posted by Mordekay Because there are still many countries and people around the world, that suppress, criminalize and haunt people from the LGBTQ community.

You're living in a dystopian world if you think that forcing your agenda towards unwilling people would solve anything happening in authoritarian countries. Think about what you can actually do to help them make progress if you care enough, because this isn't helping anyone or the cause.

[Mordekay]

I'm not forcing anything on anyone, or do you think I own this forum?
And true, I for myself cannot do anything about it in authoritarian countries, but we, as a big community (while "we" does include all of us people, no matter if part of LGBTQ or not) can force our government to put pressure on those countries.
So in the end, we can change this. Not today, not tomorrow, but in the end we can.

[MaNaReaver]

Originally Posted by Mordekay I'm not forcing anything on anyone, or do you think I own this forum? And true, I for myself cannot do anything about it in authoritarian countries, but we, as a big community (while "we" does include all of us people, no matter if part of LGBTQ or not) can force our government to put pressure on those countries. So in the end, we can change this. Not today, not tomorrow, but in the end we can.

Do you honestly think that a free-and-open government would force their propaganda on other countries? In that case, the government engaging in such is also authoritarian, does not believe in an individual's will or opinion, and would do anything to control and thwart dissenting opinions. Same goes for this forum.

Thinking that changing a logo would do anything for the cause is delusional, and like many others pointed out, does far more harm than good by highlighting differences and causing divisiveness. If you want actual change, do something better.

[Mordekay]

Well, as the people are those who elect their government, yes, they do care about what their people say to them. That's called democracy. It is this form of government, that allows us to say what we want.
And if you think adding a logo is bad, because it highlights differences, you are the one that is wrong. Because without highlighting differences, no one would try to do something to change them.
At least you can say that we are talking about them here, which is in any examples of changes for something in the past, the first step to a change.
Congratulations, you've done it!

[MaNaReaver]

Originally Posted by Mordekay Well, as the people are those who elect their government, yes, they do care about what their people say to them. That's called democracy. It is this form of government, that allows us to say what we want. And if you think adding a logo is bad, because it highlights differences, you are the one that is wrong. Because without highlighting differences, no one would try to do something to change them. At least you can say that we are talking about them here, which is in any examples of changes for something in the past, the first step to a change. Congratulations, you've done it!

You can say or do whatever you want, but you cannot enforce it on other people's beliefs. That's called freedom of choice in a democracy. Glorifying someone just because they're different doesn't help any cause, but causes loss of equality.