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Wtf? Tf2 server uses so much upload b/w?


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bobis
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Old 01-14-2015 , 10:16   Re: Wtf? Tf2 server uses so much upload b/w?
Reply With Quote #11

Quote:
Originally Posted by friagram View Post
Why dont you just get a better isp /more affordable package and take that savings to rend a server at a datacenter. You can get a machine capable of running a 32+ slot server for under 20usd a month.

Also, dsl is awful technology. Best case scenario you have good quality copper and snr (which is highhky unlikely), and you are not far from the dslam. Usually you get either low signal due to distance or bad line quality (and thius way less bandwidth than you pay for), or you get data loss resulting in dropped packets or high windowing. Either way, dsl is a loss, and for hosting it's only better than isdn and dial up (pretty much is the same as this technology anywayd). PTSN is garbage, and it's surprising it still exists (along with dsl).
My actual VDSL router rate : http://prntscr.com/5sdjqk

My statistics : http://prntscr.com/5sdk7w

My network is classified at speedtest.net as faster than 99% of my country...(and still complaining, lol) as this picture implies : http://www.speedtest.net/result/3937096494.png

Speaking about upload consumption , I just only set mp_respawnwavetime to 10 to avoid spam , I kept all rates/slots/voice the same (and sv_maxrate from 128k to 50k) , hope it helps...

Last edited by bobis; 01-14-2015 at 10:19.
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Horsedick
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Old 01-14-2015 , 19:34   Re: Wtf? Tf2 server uses so much upload b/w?
Reply With Quote #12

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocwoody View Post
Many factors can affect your bandwidth. You need to realize that the formula isn't 100% accurate.

With that said, you either need to contact your ISP and upgrade your upload speed, lower your slot count, or host your gameserver with a decent provider like the rest of us.
This.... I wouldn't even bother with the ISP and certainly don't mention what you are doing as I said MOST ISP's have it in their Terms of Service for not running a server from a residential account. You could go to a business account with many and they are perfectly fine with it then plus lots more bandwidth. The better option is to go with getting a game server from a provider or better yet get a dedicated server for a decent price and run many GOOD running servers from it.
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Potato Uno
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Old 01-14-2015 , 21:23   Re: Wtf? Tf2 server uses so much upload b/w?
Reply With Quote #13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsedick View Post
This.... I wouldn't even bother with the ISP and certainly don't mention what you are doing as I said MOST ISP's have it in their Terms of Service for not running a server from a residential account. You could go to a business account with many and they are perfectly fine with it then plus lots more bandwidth. The better option is to go with getting a game server from a provider or better yet get a dedicated server for a decent price and run many GOOD running servers from it.
^^ This is what you should do if you're going to host a spammy server like a surf server.

If you host something moderate like an MvM server, or even a generic 24 slot PvP server, you can probably get away with using your current ISP.

(BTW, seems interesting how your download is 45 mbps and upload is 9 mbps. lol?)

Also, I want to say that while your internet might be the top 1% of your country, that doesn't suddenly make the TF2 server use less bandwidth than in other countries. Any VPS hosts near your area probably have 1 Gbps or 100 mbps connections too.

But again, if you still insist on running it at home, lower your upload rates, lower your max player count (32 slots for anything but an mvm server just sounds stupid), and/or lower your server tick rate, and see if it will lower bandwidth usage (note that it will add a noticeable amount of delay of information sent to clients). Other than that, you're basically asking for a miracle with your [limited] resources and it's most likely not going to happen.

I see your plea as more-or-less asking if you can somehow run battlefield 4 on max settings at 60 FPS on an integrated graphics card. A VPS would be like getting a GTX 970 (or its AMD equivalent) graphics card, which CAN run the game at max.

Last edited by Potato Uno; 01-15-2015 at 02:51.
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bobis
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Old 01-15-2015 , 06:32   Re: Wtf? Tf2 server uses so much upload b/w?
Reply With Quote #14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Potato Uno View Post
^^ This is what you should do if you're going to host a spammy server like a surf server.

If you host something moderate like an MvM server, or even a generic 24 slot PvP server, you can probably get away with using your current ISP.

(BTW, seems interesting how your download is 45 mbps and upload is 9 mbps. lol?)

Also, I want to say that while your internet might be the top 1% of your country, that doesn't suddenly make the TF2 server use less bandwidth than in other countries. Any VPS hosts near your area probably have 1 Gbps or 100 mbps connections too.

But again, if you still insist on running it at home, lower your upload rates, lower your max player count (32 slots for anything but an mvm server just sounds stupid), and/or lower your server tick rate, and see if it will lower bandwidth usage (note that it will add a noticeable amount of delay of information sent to clients). Other than that, you're basically asking for a miracle with your [limited] resources and it's most likely not going to happen.

I see your plea as more-or-less asking if you can somehow run battlefield 4 on max settings at 60 FPS on an integrated graphics card. A VPS would be like getting a GTX 970 (or its AMD equivalent) graphics card, which CAN run the game at max.
I have forgotten to mention in my previous post , that I live very close to the DSLAM , around 200 m , so that's why I max out my speed.

Anyway , unfortunately , in my country , there is only one VPS / dedicated server provider with somehow good prices , but it's prices are very expensive when you compare them with Europe , I mean , for just a VPS with 1 core amd opteron @ 2.8 Ghz if i am not wrong , 2 GB RAM , 20 GB space and 1 TB traffic , I need to pay 17.10 euros per month ,(a cloud server costs more than 60 euros per month though...) this is ridiculus , I find it cheaper to host with my VDSL from home, with my powerfull machine (physical , not VPS) and I pay only 35 euros per month for this.

And you mention why I get 45 and 79 , well the maximum vdsl packet here in my country is 50/10 Mbps and this is I have and because I currently live very close to dslam...you know...

Last edited by bobis; 01-15-2015 at 06:35.
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Horsedick
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Old 01-15-2015 , 08:56   Re: Wtf? Tf2 server uses so much upload b/w?
Reply With Quote #15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Potato Uno View Post
^^ This is what you should do if you're going to host a spammy server like a surf server.

If you host something moderate like an MvM server, or even a generic 24 slot PvP server, you can probably get away with using your current ISP.

lol what? no I mean a MvM will use alot of CPU so prepare for that, a generic 24 slot server will likely run but have issues on a moderate ISP even if the upload is measured at 10Mbps but in real world testing you may be lucky to get over 2. If you tack on all talk even for just 6 players you will hammer the upload.

In the matter of a month one of my dedicated boxes has used over 81Gbytes in just download... Upload was well over 190Gbytes a month. And this was with mostly just 2-3 servers being semi active on it for the period of 30days. So listen to when I say that a server hosted from your ISP will throw red flags and likely have issues. It is best to just go with a rented dedicated server or co-host your own with a data center but you do what you wish...just saying numbers are numbers.
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Potato Uno
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Old 01-15-2015 , 11:55   Re: Wtf? Tf2 server uses so much upload b/w?
Reply With Quote #16

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsedick View Post
lol what? no I mean a MvM will use alot of CPU so prepare for that, a generic 24 slot server will likely run but have issues on a moderate ISP even if the upload is measured at 10Mbps but in real world testing you may be lucky to get over 2. If you tack on all talk even for just 6 players you will hammer the upload.
Umm... I ran an MvM server on 25 mbps down, 3 mbps up internet, to play with friends for a whole year, and I very rarely got complaints about lag from them (no, they don't live anywhere near where I am). My family was also using the bandwidth like no tomorrow as well. Hell, I even ran it on the same box as my client TF2, so I did 2 of the most absolute NOPES in server hosting and nobody had issues with it.

Granted, the performance of the server was definitely better when I hauled them to their own box and own connection, but running it on my ISP + same PC was nowhere near as bad as people say it would be. Also my connection then was worse than the OP's current connection.

So numbers can say whatever they want, but experience speaks the loudest. 6P MvM server (and sometimes 10P) can run on a 3 mbps upload. Is it recommended? Hell no. Is it possible to run it and play on it pretty well to beat expert mode missions? Yes.

MvM is just CPU heavy instead of player heavy, and CPU is the least of my problems, so I suppose I had that one for me.

No comment on PvP servers since I don't run any of those.

Last edited by Potato Uno; 01-15-2015 at 11:56.
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friagram
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Silicon Valley
Old 01-18-2015 , 17:10   Re: Wtf? Tf2 server uses so much upload b/w?
Reply With Quote #17

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobis View Post
My actual VDSL router rate : http://prntscr.com/5sdjqk

My statistics : http://prntscr.com/5sdk7w

My network is classified at speedtest.net as faster than 99% of my country...(and still complaining, lol) as this picture implies : http://www.speedtest.net/result/3937096494.png

Speaking about upload consumption , I just only set mp_respawnwavetime to 10 to avoid spam , I kept all rates/slots/voice the same (and sv_maxrate from 128k to 50k) , hope it helps...
Your SNR is low, too low. So low that it's likely that you will have sync problems. The smallest change in weather, line interference, etc will cause problems. This is pretty common thing isps do. They sell you lots of bandwidth, even though your line can't really handle it. You should have 15-20 snr or better to have a stable connection, but they would have to halve your rates to accomplish this. Instead, they'd rather charge you more, even though quality of service is worse.

This hosting at home nonsense goes beyond the dsl technology problem. You are adding more distance (hops) hosting fro home, since it has to go from the datacenter - isp - you. Sending one packet now is way longer, because it has to go from client - isp - router(s) - isp - you, and likewise, must travel all the way back again. All of your problems get passed to the client. Datacenter cuts out much of this (and they are usually located in ideal spots) so rather than say 15-20 hops, they make it in 8-10. Client - isp/datacenter at times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsedick View Post
lol what? no I mean a MvM will use alot of CPU so prepare for that, a generic 24 slot server will likely run but have issues on a moderate ISP even if the upload is measured at 10Mbps but in real world testing you may be lucky to get over 2. If you tack on all talk even for just 6 players you will hammer the upload.

In the matter of a month one of my dedicated boxes has used over 81Gbytes in just download... Upload was well over 190Gbytes a month. And this was with mostly just 2-3 servers being semi active on it for the period of 30days. So listen to when I say that a server hosted from your ISP will throw red flags and likely have issues. It is best to just go with a rented dedicated server or co-host your own with a data center but you do what you wish...just saying numbers are numbers.
Not uncommon for me to use 500+ gb a month per server 32 slot server, and they're not usually full past 24 players. I've seen my box hosting 3x32 and 2x8mvm go past 3500gb
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Last edited by friagram; 01-18-2015 at 17:19.
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bobis
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Old 01-19-2015 , 12:03   Re: Wtf? Tf2 server uses so much upload b/w?
Reply With Quote #18

Quote:
Originally Posted by friagram View Post

This hosting at home nonsense goes beyond the dsl technology problem. You are adding more distance (hops) hosting fro home, since it has to go from the datacenter - isp - you. Sending one packet now is way longer, because it has to go from client - isp - router(s) - isp - you, and likewise, must travel all the way back again. All of your problems get passed to the client. Datacenter cuts out much of this (and they are usually located in ideal spots) so rather than say 15-20 hops, they make it in 8-10. Client - isp/datacenter at times.
The irony thing is that one of my friends is hosting a dedi server to a local datacenter and I tested with a 3rd person and found out that hops are 2-3 more when reaching the datacenter ip than reaching my ip, but the ping is lower to the datacenter than me (about 7-9 ms difference if the person doing the tracert is greek or more if the person is outside greece). Anyway , I am currently hosting my server with maxslots 24 and I find it ok.

Last edited by bobis; 01-19-2015 at 12:12.
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friagram
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Old 01-19-2015 , 22:03   Re: Wtf? Tf2 server uses so much upload b/w?
Reply With Quote #19

probably not too big of a deal for countries you can walk across in a day, but when you're looking at stuff that spans continents, location matters
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