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slmclarengt 02-21-2008 02:04

University Legal Oversight?
 
Hey everyone, I'm seeking some honest advice/opinion as to how what I am describing might fold out.

Please do NOT derail this topic about anything but the topic at hand because I am trying to determine whether I have a legal case or not and if there is enough formation of information against my university as well as possibly other universities.

Ok, my description (I am NOT affected by this as I do not violate University Policies) of possible case:

My University (WSU) has a Network Use Policy as defined here: http://www.wsu.edu/ElectronicPolicy.html and with such they do prohibit illegal downloads of say music/videos/etc... as they are in direct violation of their Network Policy (that actually DOES include legal music because we are a research University and the School would prefer to have the bandwidth allocated to the Researchers... even at 4:01AM). Anyways, the school monitors bandwidth usage on student computers (nothing else as that is illegal; only monitoring raw bandwidth is allowed). They then look for "bandwidth jumps" as described by a gentleman in the copyright management department who manages RIAA/NPAA/etc... claims for illegal downloading. So when they assume/determine a student is downloading "too much," they suspend the user's account from accessing the internet. In order to retrieve Internet access back, the student must pay the IT department $65 for them to search the student's computer.

Where I believe they violate law:
Searching and seizing computers is illegal without obtaining a federal search warrant. So when they are paid to search the computer, that would in theory be a violation of the set forth federal law. I don't believe this case is as simple as saying "If you signed their contract for network use policy, you must abide by it" because a University's policies do not supersede that of the federal government.

http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cyberc...l2002.htm#_IB_

Quote:

Originally Posted by Department of Justice
When confronted with this issue, courts have analogized electronic storage devices to closed containers, and have reasoned that accessing the information stored within an electronic storage device is akin to opening a closed container. Because individuals generally retain a reasonable expectation of privacy in the contents of closed containers, see United States v. Ross, 456 U.S. 798, 822-23 (1982), they also generally retain a reasonable expectation of privacy in data held within electronic storage devices. Accordingly, accessing information stored in a computer ordinarily will implicate the owner's reasonable expectation of privacy in the information. See United States v. Barth, 26 F. Supp. 2d 929, 936-37 (W.D. Tex. 1998) (finding reasonable expectation of privacy in files stored on hard drive of personal computer); United States v. Reyes, 922 F. Supp. 818, 832-33 (S.D.N.Y. 1996) (finding reasonable expectation of privacy in data stored in a pager); United States v. Lynch, 908 F. Supp. 284, 287 (D.V.I. 1995) (same); United States v. Chan, 830 F. Supp. 531, 535 (N.D. Cal. 1993) (same); United States v. Blas, 1990 WL 265179, at *21 (E.D. Wis. Dec. 4, 1990) ("[A]n individual has the same expectation of privacy in a pager, computer, or other electronic data storage and retrieval device as in a closed container.").

Advice or opinions on the subject matter would be very much appreciated!

Slmclarengt

sawce 02-21-2008 02:59

Re: University Legal Oversight?
 
If you're trying to get a serious legal opinion you are asking the entirely wrong people. Despite the fact that almost everyone on the internet acts like they have a law degree most people are, in fact, 16 years old.

Ask a lawyer if you want a serious answer, you won't get one here.

P4rD0nM3 02-21-2008 03:07

Re: University Legal Oversight?
 
Didn't you just say you pay the I.T. dept. $65 to search your computer (Pretty weird policy)? I don't think that's seizing or even searching without warrant.

I mean if you gave them $65, then doesn't that mean that you're allowing them to search your computer and if they don't find any evidence that you're into some illegal stuff, they give you your internet access back?

Unless you're saying that once they decided that you're doing something illegal (Based on the info they gathered), then they just take your computer...that maybe another case.

Ask a lawyer.

slmclarengt 02-21-2008 03:39

Re: University Legal Oversight?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sawce (Post 587726)
If you're trying to get a serious legal opinion you are asking the entirely wrong people. Despite the fact that almost everyone on the internet acts like they have a law degree most people are, in fact, 16 years old.

Ask a lawyer if you want a serious answer, you won't get one here.

I wasn't looking to get a serious legal opinion just tossing the idea around to see what people's thoughts are just for kicks.

@ PardonM3 - They mandate the student pays them TO Search the computer; without paying/search, internet is not restored.

Slmclarengt

BAILOPAN 02-21-2008 09:55

Re: University Legal Oversight?
 
use encryption, both on your media and your network connections.

it's fairly typical of schools to disconnect people abusing bandwidth but i've never heard of searching their computers (which sounds unethical at best, if it's your property)

slmclarengt 02-21-2008 11:54

Re: University Legal Oversight?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BAILOPAN (Post 587814)
use encryption, both on your media and your network connections.

it's fairly typical of schools to disconnect people abusing bandwidth but i've never heard of searching their computers (which sounds unethical at best, if it's your property)

Thank you Bail. I will definitely look into these two options and will pursue my case against/with the school.

I think I left the IT Security gentleman's mouth drop when I cited their search procedure then went on to prove their illegality of such by directly citing the federal law it breaks. I just hope I don't have to take them to court just to prove a point right now.

Slmclarengt

stupok 02-21-2008 13:00

Re: University Legal Oversight?
 
I don't know much about legal issues concerning the internet, but my impression is that there are probably a lot of bad policies around right now. However, I'd be surprised if your case turned out to be solid. Go after it--if nothing else, you'll find out how they legitimize searching your computer and having you pay them to do it. I'm curious how they can do that, too.

kp_uparrow 02-21-2008 14:13

Re: University Legal Oversight?
 
HOLY SH** WSU does that wtf?

get ur own internet

slmclarengt 02-21-2008 17:58

Re: University Legal Oversight?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kp_uparrow (Post 587907)
HOLY SH** WSU does that wtf?

get ur own internet

Moments like this make me wonder why you have not been banned yet...

Slmclarengt

P.S. It's called mandated internet due to living in on-campus housing...

BAILOPAN 02-21-2008 19:13

Re: University Legal Oversight?
 
when I lived on campus I used SOCKS5 over SSL to bypass all network restrictions (save for traffic limits). I routed it through the alliedmodders server so I could use decently high-speed p2p on campus. i gave SSL certs to a few trusted friends and we were probably the only students that could use bittorrent.

our network department completely blocks ALL p2p traffic. they also have a 4GB/day external traffic limit, and violating it means a week ban. after that they disconnect you for a semester or something ridiculous.

i don't need that anymore luckily. but as i travel more and more, i'm going to start using truecrypt for all my removable media which contains personal info.

TehDoctor 02-21-2008 20:24

Re: University Legal Oversight?
 
Not an expert, but if you pay them to search it you are voluntarily giving them permission.

On the other hand if they searched it without asking etc. that is illegal.

So if you get suspected, they suspend you until you have payed them to search your computer. If thats what they do it is legal, but gay non the less.

(Im 95% sure about that, I could ask a lawyer I know when I see him )

kp_uparrow 02-22-2008 16:04

Re: University Legal Oversight?
 
pay for off campus housing

slmclarengt 03-05-2008 21:39

Re: University Legal Oversight?
 
I will post the outcome as for allowing a precedent to be set on this issue. I met with the Vice President of Information Technology along with the head of Information Technology security; we had a meeting for just about 2 1/2 hours.

We disputed the current policy and came to the conclusion it needed to be changed, in fact the IT security head said he already submitted a draft for a change (probably due to the multiple other meetings I had brought this concern to their attention during).

We determined a one-strike method (as in one time offenders get internet suspended and computer searched) is unfair. We (er, I) suggested along with the VP that it be a three-strike method (warning --> swear by affidavit --> internet suspended & student conduct board hearing) for any localized possible offenses.

The draft, as written by myself to the University's IT department to be re-phrased as per local Attorney General:
Quote:

For Local Offenses as defined by local WSU IT personnel investigating
potential student misconduct in accordance with WSU policy as well as
Local, State and Federal laws, the following penalties or punishments
are defined:

First offense: A warning is sent via 3 separate methods for redundancy
(myWSU, local mail and e-mail, perhaps phone call if necessary as per
chance a last resort, but that we did not discuss.) The student has up to
two (2) weeks to respond to said warning whether refuting or admitting
to said claim of illegal activity (whether it be downloading
music/movies). They also would have to promise/swear to clean the
material off their computer in accordance with
copyright/trademark/Intellectual Property laws. If the student does/did
not respond, no action would be taken to punish them, however any future
incident would result in the second stage regardless of whether or not
they were innocent (no second chances to prove case if second offender
who ignored request for reply via e-mail/myWSU/local mail/phone/etc...).

Second offense: The student's computer internet access is suspended
(ie: Intranet access only allowed), are given two (2) weeks to respond
to a written request to mandate a signed affidavit swearing to clean the
material off their computer; if they do not respond, internet access
remains restricted and unless extenuating circumstances dictate
otherwise, they are required to attend a copyright seminar. Upon
completion of said requirements, their internet is restored. If they
repeat the offense a third time, they are placed under the third
offense, defined herein.

Third offense: The student's computer internet access is suspended
(ie: Intranet access only allowed) and they are referred to student
conduct for a required student conduct board member hearing in which
they must plea their case as to what they have and/or had done. Once the
required hearing has concluded and necessary measures taken, the
student's internet is restored unless circumstances dictate otherwise.

For RIAA/NPAA and other requests falling under the category of Digital
Millenium Copyright Act, the penalties and procedure is as follows:

Provided WSU IT personnel network data including but not limited to
firewall logs/bandwidth/network traffic/timestamps line up with the
information sworn under the DMCA request, the penalties ensue. If they
do not line up, the student is contacted to explain the scenario so as
to get a better understanding of the situation.

First Offense/DMCA request: The student's computer internet access is
suspended (ie: Intranet access only allowed), are given two (2) weeks to
respond to a written request to mandate a signed affidavit swearing to
clean the material off their computer; if they do not respond, they are
referred to Student Conduct for a hearing and when said hearing
concludes, their internet is restored.

Second Offense/DMCA request: The student is immediately referred to
Student Conduct for a hearing and internet privileges revoked whether or
not including Intranet can or will be circumstantially based. We had
discussed this and we were tentative as to whether or not the internet
revocation would be completely (no intranet as well) or only restrictive
of internet. How long this would last would perhaps be based upon
student conduct's approval or so I would think.

Third Offense/DMCA request: The student is immediately referred to
Student Conduct for a hearing and internet privileges revoked perhaps
for the student's full career at WSU provided the circumstances are
understood and the student conduct board feels that is of fair
discipline.
Slmclarengt

stupok 03-06-2008 01:37

Re: University Legal Oversight?
 
Rockin' dude

slmclarengt 03-06-2008 02:00

Re: University Legal Oversight?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stupok69 (Post 593697)
Rockin' dude

Thank you. It sure took a lot of determination and persistence because I went through many phone calls, e-mails, and personal discussions with many different people until finally getting some real result. I'm glad the VP IT felt the same way with her 22 years of experience as the head of IT; she was completely appalled at the policy and was very happy with my determination as she was not even aware of the policy (she is new to University and has been too busy otherwise).

I'm hoping the policy takes effect within a reasonable amount of time (within a few weeks) but it seems some things around here just take forever...

Slmclarengt

Lord_Destros 03-06-2008 03:00

Re: University Legal Oversight?
 
Heh, good to hear. Those at WSU owe you XD.


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