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-   -   Veeservers suck, don't waste your money (https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=77832)

icetea 09-21-2008 16:06
Veeservers suck, don't waste your money
 
I just needed some advice on this:
I decided to change my server IP, so i redirected them to the new ip for a couple of days, and then canceled the servers.
My server host (veeservers.com) decided to resell the IP because it still had an average of 22 players, including all of my server files (its a zombie mod), so he sold it to some guy, who kept my old clan name, and all the files to get people back into it.

My issue here is that hes giving my server files aways, and I feel this is the equvalent to me canceling an email account, and them giving my emails and account name to somebody else.

Thanks for your help!

FuZ!on 09-21-2008 16:13
Re: Legal help
 
Okay... What do you want us to do about it?

Contact Vee...

Pro Patria Finland 09-21-2008 16:14
Re: Legal help
 
AFAIK, there's been alotf of weird shit like this coming from veeservers. It's like, the instant you stop paying them they start using what's left from your server (especially if it's succesfull).

You are right with your comparison to the e-mail accounts, but I don't know what the law says... after all these are files that are propably available elsewhere in the internet. Well, just thinking with text, somebody might have some useful knowledge on this.

icetea 09-21-2008 17:09
Re: Legal help
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuZ!on (Post 689164)
Okay... What do you want us to do about it?

Contact Vee...
i was just looking for an opinion on it
i already contacted vee and he claims that he owns the rights to my files

P4rD0nM3 09-21-2008 18:25
Re: Legal help
 
I'm just wondering...what do you mean re-sell? Like sell it at a higher price because it already has a bit of player-base compared to starting a new server? Is that how it is?

Sorry for asking but I've never really heard this kind of practice among the other GSPs.

You should have deleted every file you can delete before you canceled it for safety measures...even though you're under the assumption that your host would delete it for you automatically as soon as you cancel your account. Hehe.

I honestly think that's bad practice.

minimiller 09-21-2008 18:33
Re: Legal help
 
Thats proper unfair!
Can u not use your old details and log in to delete the files?
Im glad im not with vee servers

P4rD0nM3 09-21-2008 18:34
Re: Legal help
 
Go and make contact with a lawyer or something. That way you'll at least have a more proper back-up than what we say here.

DeuX 09-21-2008 18:35
Re: Legal help
 
Yes, actually an interesting situation, and during too time the sad!

My individual advice, on a private experience to do copies
of the first copy and not to trust files to strangers!

At us similar in the project could be, if we were not extremely attentive,
as many our competitors and dream to receive any way all necessary files (NAKEN.LV).

I personally consider that it not lawfully and besides it is blackmail.

All it I tell because happened at us such already in practice.

allenwr 09-21-2008 18:39
Re: Legal help
 
wheres the contract to the hosting plan?

that would tell you everything and if there is no contract, consider this a lesson learned.

icetea 09-22-2008 01:47
Re: Legal help
 
Login has changed.
honestly, i wanted to keep the server for another month, but he told me the only way i could continue to have it is if i payed for 3 servers combined, and i just didnt have that kinda money. I woulda deleted the files if i would have known that he was going to give it to someone else

@allenwr
i dont know what you mean by hosting plan, if you mean tos, then i still dont know what you mean

EvolDay 09-22-2008 04:38
Re: Legal help
 
Vee, will do anything to make sales i've dealed with him before and i don't really like his ways of doing business. He is also rated F by the BBB which is the worst possible rating i believe. Check out GSPTruth.com website and read the reviews about him aswell he is like hated there.

http://www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Bu...nyID=100070137

YamiKaitou 09-22-2008 09:50
Re: Legal help
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icetea (Post 689343)
@allenwr
i dont know what you mean by hosting plan, if you mean tos, then i still dont know what you mean
The thing that says what you are allowed to do and what you can't do. Yes, he means ToS. If it is not in his tos that he owns rights to the files, than he can't say he does.


I'm glad that I turned Vee down back when he was still starting up the company. I didn't trust him then (he didn't have a clue what he was talking about) and I sure ain't trusting him now

Brad 09-22-2008 09:59
Re: Legal help
 
I have read *nothing* at all good about VeeServers. My advice is that anyone with them, leave, and anyone looking to host with them, don't. You can find much better hosts.

LOL - I've never even dealt with VeeServers and the way the company is run still pisses me off.

icetea 09-22-2008 10:02
Re: Legal help
 
Code:
VeeServers.com
 Terms of Service (TOS)
 Renters have relatively unrestricted control of their servers and webspace, but there are limits to what we can allow on our end to maintain fairness to all.
 Those Terms of Service are listed below.
 This list is subject to change, so renters should check it frequently.
 Definitions.
  "we", "us", "our" = VeeServers.com.
  "you", "customer" = A customer of VeeServers.com.
 1. Duration of contract.
 The contract lasts as long as payment has you are still subscribed to VeeServers.com. If for some reason the transaction does not go through, we maintain the right to shut down your server and delete all files. We also reserve the right to refuse service.
 2. Use Policy.
 No customer of ours shall at any time:
 a. Use our services to store any foreign files.
  b. Advertise or promote any company that can or may be seen as competition to us.
  c. Install any kind of ping booster.
  d. Install any kind of bots on boosted servers.
  e. Install blockmaker/blockbuilder on boosted servers.
  f. Threaten VeeServers.com staff members.
 3. Server Administration Rules.
 a. Users may edit their server config files freely as long as they do not disobey any of the following:
  b. Adjusting rates to increase FPS
  c. Remove password when customer is being billed for a private server.
 4. Change of service agreement.
 VeeServers reserves the right to change/alter the terms and conditions without prior notice.
 5. Recurring payments.
 All subscriptions to VeeServers.com are billed automatically. You cannot file disputes on PayPal or file chargebacks with your card issuer. Doing so will cause termination of the server and/or reported to the proper authorities as fraud.
 6. Service Outages.
 As a customer of ours you shall accept that there may occasionally be problems with the services that could result in server downtime. Also customers must accept that in these cases they will have no breach of contract claim against VeeServers.com. If we are made aware of possible service outages all customers will be informed.
 7. Server Setup/Creation.
 There is no guarantee of instant setup, All orders will be setup within 24 hours or you have the right to request a refund.
 8. Refunds.
 We do not offer refunds. Once the payment is made, under no circumstances will we give receive a refund.
 If you wish to cancel your services but do not cancel the paypal subscription and paypal automatically bills you and send the money to us, you will not get refunded.

 9. Cancellations.
 The only acceptable procedure to cancel a server is listed below.
 Cancel the server in PayPal by finding the active subscription, then clicking on its "Details" and choosing "Cancel" at the bottom of the resulting page. If you';re having difficulty doing this, you can find an alternate cancellation method here: https://www.paypal.com/helpcenter/main.jsp?cmd=_help-ext&t=solutionTab&solutionId=11750
 If you do not cancel by Paypal, Paypal may charge you for another month of server rental, which cannot be refunded.Note that we do not offer refunds even if we cancel a server forcibly (against a renter';s wishes).
 10. Indemnity:
 All customers must acknowledge that you are solely responsible for your use of our Services, and all information, data and results you obtain from using it and that all warranties, conditions, undertakings, representations and terms whether expressed or implied, tatutory or otherwise are hereby excluded to the fullest extent permitted by law.
 Other than as provided for in this Agreement, VeeServers.com hereby disclaim and exclude to the fullest extent permitted by law all liability for any loss or damage whatsoever and howsoever incurred to any customer owned hardware that is placed into our racks/storage.
 You will indemnify VeeServers.com from and against all losses, liabilities, damages, costs, reasonable expenses, actions and claims suffered or incurred by VeeServers arising out of or in connection with any breach by you of these Terms. All customers should be aware that once you use the Service in any way, unless we agree otherwise, you will not have the right under Regulation 10 of the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 to cancel this Agreement within 7 days of entering into it as if the Agreement had not been made. This Agreement has a minimum period (the “initial term”) of 1 month (unless otherwise detailed in your Internet Service Agreement). During this initial period you may not cancel this Agreement without paying all fees due for the period, regardless of whether invoices for these charges have been raised or not.
 **Failure to comply with the above terms will result in possible suspension of account/services without prior notice/refund**
not a word about owning my files! the only thing it says in regard to my files is that im not allowed to host foreign files, and that he is allowed to delete any one of my files! you really have to search hard on his site for this page! its a link way down at the bottom o.o

http://veeservers.com/tos.html

slmclarengt 09-22-2008 20:11
Re: Legal help
 
What a sticky situation this seems to be.

Intellectual Property can be defined as
Code:
A product of the intellect that has commercial value, including copyrighted property such as literary or artistic works, and ideational property
I have bolded the two potential criteria your case must meet or at least affirm in order to be intellectual property.

First, Commercial value is something of monetary value (hence Commercial). If he did actually SELL the files, that in fact is a commercial revenue satisfying the commercial value clause.

Ideational Property needs practically no explanation because in this case the files are your property (to a certain extent) that you made to be "proprietary" hence the value they hold.

You do not hold any copyrights I doubt for any work you have put in so copyright law is out of the question.

To make matters worse, the servers are his property and it may be implied that he has control over the use of his servers (ie files) though that is very hazy.

Their indemnification clause (which is horribly written by the way) is the only clause to come relatively close to handling this concern:

Code:
10. Indemnity:
 All customers must acknowledge that you are solely responsible for your use of our Services, and all information, data and results you obtain from using it and that all warranties, conditions, undertakings, representations and terms whether expressed or implied, tatutory or otherwise are hereby excluded to the fullest extent permitted by law.
 Other than as provided for in this Agreement, VeeServers.com hereby disclaim and exclude to the fullest extent permitted by law all liability for any loss or damage whatsoever and howsoever incurred to any customer owned hardware that is placed into our racks/storage.
 You will indemnify VeeServers.com from and against all losses, liabilities, damages, costs, reasonable expenses, actions and claims suffered or incurred by VeeServers arising out of or in connection with any breach by you of these Terms.
The ambiguity of this indemnification clause is tremendous.

I would have to say his practices are legal (with the possible exception lying in intellectual property and the distribution of an unauthorized product) but highly unethical.

My suggestion to you; send a cease and desist letter Vee's way (from a professional address) and I have formulated a reasonable one for you:
Code:
Dear Vee:

It has come to my attention that you have made an unauthorized use of my copyrighted work and files covered within <Old server IP/Hostname> and <example of specific infringing files> (the "Work") in the preparation of a work derived therefrom. Your work and files covered within <Old server IP/Hostname> and <example of specific infringing files> are essentially identical to the Work and clearly used the Work as its basis. [Give a few examples that illustrate direct copying.]

As you neither asked for nor received permission to use the Work as the basis for [name of infringing work] nor to make or distribute copies, including electronic copies, of same, I believe you have willfully infringed my rights under 17 U.S.C. Section 101 et seq. and could be liable for statutory damages as high as $150,000 as set forth in Section 504(c)(2) therein, including potential punitive damages.

I demand that you immediately cease the use and distribution of all infringing works derived from the Work, and all copies, including electronic copies, of same, that you deliver to me, if applicable, all unused, undistributed copies of same, or destroy such copies immediately and that you desist from this or any other infringement of my rights in the future. If I have not received an affirmative response from you by [date give them about 2 weeks] indicating that you have fully complied with these requirements, I shall take further action against you.

Very truly yours,

<Your name here>
Unfortunately I had to remove some wording and change the wording because you never published it nor is it actually copyrighted (your issue falls under IP law not copyright as it was never submitted). I did live some reference to copyright to instill fear in his head but it is your choice whether you want to use this or not. I know my head hurts really bad right now but I wanted to try to help you out considering it is my intent to be an attorney and the cases I have been studying lately have related to things similar in nature to this and other business law cases.

Best of luck because I need to get food ASAP :-).

Slmclarengt

P.S. Look at the link in my signature for cheap Nuclearfallout servers if you want to move on to them, a better company (no support though).

icetea 09-23-2008 18:59
Re: Legal help
 
ah i almost forgot this as well: I was using several plugins that required me to enter my database info, so whoever bought my old server, now has all the information to my forums database

i have to go change everything >:[

i always had the impression he does everything but make the site by himself
ive never actualy talked to someone other than him.

@ your signature

sorry but the whole reason for me canceling from vee was because I was already switching IP's

if i ever need to switch again, ill look into it though

I appreciate all your help :)

Brad 09-23-2008 19:26
Re: Legal help
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by slmclarengt (Post 689706)
P.S. Look at the link in my signature for cheap Nuclearfallout servers if you want to move on to them, a TREMENDOUSLY MUCH better company (no support though).
Fixed.

icetea 09-23-2008 21:45
Re: Legal help
 
hehe check this out

Code:
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: Ready to order? :]

 i say no and never

:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: www.link to my files removed.com :P
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: Ready to order? :]

guess what hes doing now?

:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: Alright, lets make more money out of your files
now hes blackmailing me to buy stuff from him or he'll release my files

im obviosly not going to give in, because i dont care enough about those files to pay 200 bucks/month for them

all i have to say is never, ever, EVER host with this guy

danielkza 09-23-2008 21:48
Re: Legal help
 
Take a screenshot of the conversation and send to him with the cease-and-desist letter.

v3x 09-23-2008 21:56
Re: Legal help
 
Wow. How unprofessional is that? How old is Vee? 12?

icetea 09-23-2008 21:56
Re: Legal help
 
heres the whole convo
Quote:

:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: Ready to order? :]
me: lol.......
me: no
me: and never
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: www.DownloadmyFiles.com :P
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: Ready to order? :]
me: dont
me: that has my database info in it
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: Lets place that order ;]
me: lets not
me: i switched providers anyhow
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: Alright, lets make more money out of your files
me: thats a dead link
me: lol@noob
me: you cant even reg a domain that fast
me: it takes 24 hours
me: and the domain is still available!
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: lol
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: i can get it down
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: less then
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: 6 hours
me: who gives a rat shit
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: you do
me: its not like those files are hard to make
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: lol
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: must be cause your really mad
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: aha
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: lolumad?
me: no im not mad at that
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: oh yes you areeee snoogie woogums
me: im mad that hes trying to say he owns my old clan
me: do you honestly think anybodys going to host with you after this?
me: this is far from good buisiness
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: Doesn't really matter :P
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: Nor is being late on a bill for a week :]
me: im not a buisiness man
me: i could care less
me: but your blackmailing a client
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: naaaaaah
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: Blackmail where?
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: lo
me: your essentialy saying
me: give me money or i make your files public
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: lol
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: nowhere did i say
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: give me money
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: lol
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: i simply asked, do you want to buy aserver
me: :: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: Ready to order? :]
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: like i do everyday
:: www.VeeServers.com - Vee ::: lol
me: hmm

chris 09-23-2008 22:16
Re: Legal help
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by v3x (Post 690093)
Wow. How unprofessional is that? How old is Vee? 12?
He's just really desperate for money. You should have seen him when VeeServers started.:comply:

Mlk27 09-23-2008 23:09
Re: Legal help
 
hmm we should digg this.

P4rD0nM3 09-24-2008 00:19
Re: Legal help
 
Wow. Just wow.

slmclarengt 09-24-2008 00:50
Re: Legal help
 
If you were using Paypal to pay him, you should try to DISPUTE any applicable payments you sent to him on various ethical/legal grounds. Get that money back from that crook.

You can't really use the BBB but you could maybe put a review on resellerratings.com about him if you care.

Slmclarengt

Vee 09-24-2008 01:37
Re: Legal help
 
Hello <snip>

Your GameServers were suspended and you contacted me regarding why it was suspended. You then found out that someone had access to your paypal account and messed around with it a bit. I extended your server for 1 full week free of charge in which you were allowed to renew your account for the same DISCOUNTED price that I offered. The total cost of your 3 servers is suppose to be $96 but you received them for $45. You were one of my cool clients that I kept on my steam friendslist. After 1 week I notified you that if you were not going to pay for the servers, they would be released to a third party to use. In regards to the e-mail metaphor, if you cancel your e-mail account, anyone can freely create an account and take the same name that you had; same goes with domain names. Anyways, I gave you warnings prior to this happening and offered you multiple chances and you refuse to pay and ignore my PM's so I went ahead and released it to someone who would pay for the servers. I do apologize for also releasing your files, but I do remember telling you they would be sold as is. Even after I told you that, you did not request the files be deleted or for the server to be reformatted. We both are at fault and I do apologize for any inconvenience this may have cause. Now that the gameservers are under new ownership, you would have to work with whoever it is in which VeeServers will NOT be involved.

v3x 09-24-2008 02:00
Re: Legal help
 
What kind of host says things like "let's make more money out of your files" and calls their clients names? That was very unprofessional if you ask me. It could have easily been resolved in a professional manner. I'm surprised that you even have any clients at all being as immature as you are, Vee. I was considering ordering a server or two from you until I found out about your dark side of pure idiocy and immaturity.

slmclarengt 09-24-2008 02:28
Re: Legal help
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vee (Post 690138)
Hello <name here>.

Your GameServers were suspended and you contacted me regarding why it was suspended. You then found out that someone had access to your paypal account and messed around with it a bit. I extended your server for 1 full week free of charge in which you were allowed to renew your account for the same DISCOUNTED price that I offered. The total cost of your 3 servers is suppose to be $96 but you received them for $45. You were one of my cool clients that I kept on my steam friendslist. After 1 week I notified you that if you were not going to pay for the servers, they would be released to a third party to use. In regards to the e-mail metaphor, if you cancel your e-mail account, anyone can freely create an account and take the same name that you had; same goes with domain names. Anyways, I gave you warnings prior to this happening and offered you multiple chances and you refuse to pay and ignore my PM's so I went ahead and released it to someone who would pay for the servers. I do apologize for also releasing your files, but I do remember telling you they would be sold as is. Even after I told you that, you did not request the files be deleted or for the server to be reformatted. We both are at fault and I do apologize for any inconvenience this may have cause. Now that the gameservers are under new ownership, you would have to work with whoever it is in which VeeServers will NOT be involved.
I think I can sum up my empathy for you, Vee in one sentence I so kindly submitted to your karma:
Code:
Meet your new friend, highly concentrated Potassium Chloride injection -slm
I would be tempted to suggest Vee be banned on the grounds of unethical treatment of customers so as to show this kind of behavior should not be tolerated by any member, kind of like a precedent.

Slmclarengt

P.S. Addressing a user publicly by their name is a bit out-of-line if you ask me hence the reason behind having an alias. Stop trying to be dominant. You are dominant in no one's world except POSSIBLY your own.

P.P.S. Better title for this thread: Veeservers suck, don't waste your money.

P.P.P.S. Sorry Vee, you really have asked for it though; the indecency you present is so extenuating, I cannot sympathize with you. It has been proven the companies with the greatest desire for ethical behavior also do the best financially (think PROFIT), now you know why Nuclearfallout.net rocks worlds, they are ETHICAL.

P4rD0nM3 09-24-2008 02:38
Re: Legal help
 
Vee, just wondering since you're a GSP.

When someone buys a server from you...don't you create a user account for that person? And under that user account is where everything's located i.e. server files etc.

Now when a user cancels their account do you purge their account? Or you actually keep it (Which is what I think you did) or it depends?

I'm not telling you how to run your business. I just think that the way you do and handle stuff is very unprofessional and unethical compared to the more prominent GSPs out there.

Because I always thought that GSPs should always purge everything related to the user once they cancel their accounts.

Which really bugs me...why the heck would you do under-the-counter deals with your clients? Like selling a server outside the price range of what you actually sell them just because players are already coming to that IP address. I mean...why? I really don't get it. Is it for the money? People would pay more if the server's already got a player base coming to it?

I've heard of these deals already but it only happened from server owner to another server owner. But from a GSP to a server owner...that's something!

Completely blows my mind away.

Derek 09-24-2008 07:49
Re: Veeservers suck, don't waste your money
 
http://www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Bu...nyID=100070137

www.GSPTruth.com you can view all the reviews.

Vee 09-24-2008 11:46
Re: Veeservers suck, don't waste your money
 
I am above you all :] There is no problem in addressing a user by the name he is known as is there? I am Vee and he is <snip>. Is there a reason why he had to sign up under a different alias? Why not be himself? The BBB is a joke, only unsatisfied/pissed people will file complaints, happy people don't have time to waste with that :]. This incident has already been cleared by Brandon between <snip> and the buying user.

P.S, who are you guys anyways and why do you guys speak of my name as if you know me? It seems as if I'm famous and you guys are nobodies, that's how I see it.

$1/Slot for Public servers at <snip> - Great for mods!

Pro Patria Finland 09-24-2008 11:51
Re: Veeservers suck, don't waste your money
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vee (Post 690269)
I am above you all :] There is no problem in addressing a user by the name he is known as is there? I am Vee and he is <snip>. Is there a reason why he had to sign up under a different alias? Why not be himself? The BBB is a joke, only unsatisfied/pissed people will file complaints, happy people don't have time to waste with that :]. This incident has already been cleared by Brandon between <snip> and the buying user.

P.S, who are you guys anyways and why do you guys speak of my name as if you know me? It seems as if I'm famous and you guys are nobodies, that's how I see it.

$1/Slot for Public servers at <snip> - Great for mods!
...

Of course unsatisfied people complain, doh.

Really, to be honest it's not the issue here who got these problems with your servers. Now we know, and hopefully new people will catch this thread. If you haven't realized, this is not the only user that has complained about you, or for you. And I think you do know that by now.

You know, that you are a money-hungry bastard who is just looking at the figures. Of course, a business should make as much money as possible, but not with the expense of service quality.

Edit: Oh, and your edit of your post is against the rules of the forum. Have a nice ban, dumbass.

minimiller 09-24-2008 12:03
Re: Veeservers suck, don't waste your money
 
and also, theres WAAAAAY better GSPs out there
Most offer better than $0.99/slot...

Vee 09-24-2008 12:42
Re: Veeservers suck, don't waste your money
 
If I am addressed by my name why should he not be addressed by his nick? Is there something wrong? Is he not liked in this community? What's wrong with <snip> ?

hlstriker 09-24-2008 12:57
Re: Veeservers suck, don't waste your money
 
With each post you make your company looks that much worse.

Brad 09-24-2008 12:57
Re: Veeservers suck, don't waste your money
 
Vee, you're funny. That's why you're not banned yet. Sometimes, with some people, it's just amusing to hear them talk. You are one of them. Not because they're trying to be funny, just because they're so stupid that it's exciting to wait and see what they'll say next.

Somewhat unrelated...

0.89/slot @ 250 FPS can be had at much more reputable companies.

I'll now go and edit your posts to make sure they're in line with the global forum rules (you don't seem to know what they are).

Hi.

slmclarengt 09-24-2008 15:41
Re: Veeservers suck, don't waste your money
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad (Post 690303)
Fixed for you to link to the subsidiary of the more reputable company :-).

Slmclarengt

BAILOPAN 09-25-2008 01:55
Re: Veeservers suck, don't waste your money
 
Legality aside (of which this is certainly dubious, though I am no lawyer), this is remarkably unscrupulous.

I would not give this server provider the time of day, much less money or the ability to hold my private information.

sawce 09-25-2008 03:07
Re: Veeservers suck, don't waste your money
 
I told you stop posting names, brad didn't want to ban you but I don't like you.

Brad 09-25-2008 07:42
Re: Veeservers suck, don't waste your money
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawce (Post 690585)
I told you stop posting names, brad didn't want to ban you but I don't like you.
I have an avatar.


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